DPG!!

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trickfred
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Postby trickfred » Thu May 25, 2006 1:54 am

*gasp!*

Double post! :D

Version 1.02 is up - I added a file count to show whether or not there were files in a profile - so you don't have to 'clear' a profile if it's empty.

Edit: Made a quick change, to refresh the file count after a profile is cleared. Didn't think it warranted a version change. If you're one of the one, maybe two people that has downloaded it already, please download it again if you're terribly concerned about file count. :D
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Postby trickfred » Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:35 am

*gasp again!*

Triple post! Somebody stop me!

v1.03 is up, in light of a new annoyance in the North American boxed release, and two other minor annoyances I've noticed using the program myself.

http://stellarmatter.net/static.php?page=dpg
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Postby xander » Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:34 pm

trickfred wrote:*gasp again!*

Triple post! Somebody stop me!


Trickfred! Stop before you hurt yourself! Won't someone please think of the children!

xander
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Postby trickfred » Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:20 am

xander wrote:
trickfred wrote:*gasp again!*

Triple post! Somebody stop me!


Trickfred! Stop before you hurt yourself! Won't someone please think of the children!

xander


You just had to bring up the children again! You know my lawyer said I can't talk about that until after the trial!

(I'll email you the marinade recipe.)

... *burp* ... Anyways, to keep one finger on the pulse of the topic, if anyone can think of any other features they'd like to see added to the DPG, please post them here, and if they're feasible I'll see if I can add them. I've been debating throwing some redshirt2 code in there, just for the sake of convenience.
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Postby xander » Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:39 pm

trickfred wrote:Anyways, to keep one finger on the pulse of the topic, if anyone can think of any other features they'd like to see added to the DPG, please post them here, and if they're feasible I'll see if I can add them. I've been debating throwing some redshirt2 code in there, just for the sake of convenience.

Mac compatible binaries? That would be nice :P

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Postby trickfred » Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:55 pm

What language does one usually write programs in on a Mac?

(Yes, when it comes to Macs, I'm completely oblivious - I've used a whole two of them. One for QuarkXPress, one for Warcraft II. :D )

As stated before, DPG is in VB ATM. Not really cross-platform. And really, it's so small, it would probably be easier for someone to just write a new one for the Mac, than port mine.

I'll look into RealBasic, but the deluxe version's not cheap.

Also, does the Mac have the equivalent of the Windows Registry, or would I have to create a preference file for my program that creates preference files?

Edit: Redshirt2 added. 1.04's up. Link's a few posts above.
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Postby ShepFan » Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:09 am

trickfred wrote:What language does one usually write programs in on a Mac?

C, C++, Objective-C, Fortran, RealBASIC, Java, AppleScript, to name a few. Office Mac comes with "Visual Basic for Applications," but it looks to be just for writing things like Excel macros. Too bad!

trickfred wrote:Also, does the Mac have the equivalent of the Windows Registry, or would I have to create a preference file for my program that creates preference files?

No, not really. Each app gets it's own reserved XML filename to store the prefs it chooses, or it can "roll its own" (like Mac Office), but there is no monolithic file for all system-wide preferences. Darwinia on the Mac rolls its own, and creates a folder in /Users/[username]/Library/Application Support/Darwinia/full/. There's a non-Redshirt2 "preferences.txt" file at that level. Then there are deeper directories to get to the good stuff: .../users/[darwinia profile name]/game.txt is the usual target file.

Having coded on both platforms, I think the non-Registry approach is easier, simpler and safer. It's too easy to hose the whole system when playing with the Registry.

-ShepFan
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Postby xander » Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:17 pm

ShepFan wrote:Having coded on both platforms, I think the non-Registry approach is easier, simpler and safer. It's too easy to hose the whole system when playing with the Registry.

It seems that there are pros and cons to each side. On the registry side, despite the fact that it is a horrible hack, it has the potential to track dependencies better, and eliminate redundancy (i.e. there is only one copy of any shared library that is needed by multiple programs). However, the registry seems like a massive hack, and often doesn't work that well (I am told).

On the other hand, Mac programs are self contained -- all of the libraries, &c. are stored in the application bundle itself. This means that installing an app is generally as easy is dragging it from one place to another. While potentially shared libraries are going to be duplicated, hard disk space is cheap, so I don't think that really matters. On the other hand, finding preferences can be a pain. Office keeps a lot of files in ~/Documents; ~/Library/Preferences and ~/Library/Application\ Support are good places to look; apps my keep preferences in their own directories; &c. The could literally be almost anywhere on the hard drive, which can be a pain.

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Postby trickfred » Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:50 pm

ShepFan wrote:
trickfred wrote:Also, does the Mac have the equivalent of the Windows Registry, or would I have to create a preference file for my program that creates preference files?

Having coded on both platforms, I think the non-Registry approach is easier, simpler and safer. It's too easy to hose the whole system when playing with the Registry.


Says you. Though I've never coded for a Mac, I can safely say that I prefer having settings in one place, and having them independant of the program's directory - my development environment version and my compiled version both get their settings from the same place. Call me an MS whore if you like, but that's just one thing I've grown accustomed to.

And it's altogether too easy for anyone with no common sense to burn their house down around them, drink the pretty-coloured cleaning solution, or fall to their deaths off a ladder due to reaching to the side too far because they don't want to climb down and reposition it. Editing the registry, like anything, is safe if you know what you're doing. The trick is adding your keys in the proper place, and not touching keys that belong to anything else. I think I can manage at least that modicum of self restraint. I've never once 'hosed my whole system' by taking advantage of its system-wide accessibility. I've hosed my system in other ways though, plenty of times. (It is Windows, after all :D )

Regardless, I'm fairly certain that linux has no equivalent to the registry, so if I do go ahead and get myself a RealBasic environment (And find some way to defray the cost of the pro version, egads - $500 US) then I'd have to come up with an alternate settings-retention mechanism anyways.
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Postby xander » Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:45 pm

trickfred wrote:Says you. Though I've never coded for a Mac, I can safely say that I prefer having settings in one place, and having them independant of the program's directory - my development environment version and my compiled version both get their settings from the same place. Call me an MS whore if you like, but that's just one thing I've grown accustomed to.

You are, I think, missing the point. There is a directory where programs are supposed to keep their preferences, i.e. ~/Library/Preferences . If you have several versions of a program that all need to make reference to the same settings, keep those settings in ~/Library/Preferences . For DPG, I would suggest keeping those settings with the Darwinia stuff, which is in ~/Library/Application\ Support/Darwinia (which is another standard place for keeping app specific stuff). If a program is behaving (i.e. the programmer didn't decided to do his/her own thing (*cough*Microsoft*cough*), preferences should be in ~/Library/Preferences. Period.

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Postby trickfred » Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:44 pm

xander wrote:The could literally be almost anywhere on the hard drive, which can be a pain.


After reading your post, that's basically what I was left with. My comments were meant more as an opposing viewpoint to ShepFan's dislike of using the registry anyways.

Whatever you suggest as the best place to store the settings file in, I'll take your word for, if I do a port (Doesn't change the fact that I still prefer the concept of the Win registry). That all depends on me figuring out a way of getting RealBasic Pro (legitly), while making someone else pay for it, or making it pay for itself. I'm not paying $500 USD to write a program I'm giving away for free. :D
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Postby ShepFan » Sat Jun 24, 2006 4:34 am

trickfred wrote:
ShepFan wrote:
trickfred wrote:Also, does the Mac have the equivalent of the Windows Registry, or would I have to create a preference file for my program that creates preference files?

Having coded on both platforms, I think the non-Registry approach is easier, simpler and safer. It's too easy to hose the whole system when playing with the Registry.


Says you.

Um, you asked for some Macintosh programming info and help, and since that's my area of expertise, I attempted to oblige. I was trying to encourage you by saying DPG on a Mac would be easier, based on my experience.

...
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Postby trickfred » Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:34 am

Yeah, that might have sounded a bit rude on second read-back... Sorry, no offense meant, seriously. :oops:

The point is moot anyways, no equivalent system exists on the Mac, which is all I really needed to know.
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Postby hitm4n » Sat Jun 24, 2006 5:44 pm

without having even used this program, i don't know if this request would be a little stoopid. (i will try it later i promise)

Is the ability to list all installed mods and choose one included in this frontend thingummy ? The profile name created for it would be based on the mods folder name (if one doesn't exist) and you would simply click a mod, it'd create a profile and load the game.

A true mod loading frontend rather than just a prefs thing.
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Postby trickfred » Sat Jun 24, 2006 8:13 pm

DPG does list all directories found in the darwinia/mods directory (doesn't verify that they're installed properly or anything like that, I'm not writing an Office-sized app here :D ), and allows you to select the one you want from a listbox.

Profiles are also listed/selectable, with buttons to create new ones, delete files from the old ones (clearing them for re-use), or deleting them altogether. I could potentially add a button that creates a new profile based on the name of the currently selected mod (if one doesn't already exist by that name), that would be easy.

On another note, I downloaded a trial of RealBasic 2006 release 2, and the VB Project Converter. The DPG code seriously got mangled in the process, as apparently I used commands/syntax that are slightly/greatly different in RB from VB (Odd, since RB is toted as being EASILY portable), and my registry.bas file didn't survive (which, as we've previously discussed, didn't really matter anyways). As it stands, it appears that pretty much the whole thing would have to be rewritten anyways, so, isn't there anyone out there willing to whip one up for the poor Mac users? Think of the children!

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