caleb_grey wrote:If you don't belive me, buy Uplink's devdisk. Look at the code. Now try *understand* parts of that code. You'll find it difficult, as Uplink was changed about so much that its quite horrid code. Darwinia might not be the same, but I would wager there's things done in Darwinia that can't really be ported well to a generic engine like the Source Engine.
now you are just being silly. i love the game, i love what iv have put together, but darwinia really is not that complicated, and would probably benifit from the mature scripting, and renderer of the source engine, which are the 2 biggest complaints in every review of the game.
Actually its far more complicated than you think. I've seen more of the source of Darwinia than you have. I've also seen the Uplink source (ok, not exactly hard anymore). I can tell you for a fact that the engine of Darwinia is built for Darwinia; porting it or replacing it with something else would be heaniously difficult at best.
As for the benifits? I see few. As I've said before, the source engine is far to heavy for something like Darwinia. Darwinia doesn't need all the extras that come with the source engine, so there's no point in doing it, at all, for any reason.
caleb_grey wrote:Where the hell did you get the idea that I thought that IV would lose control over the game? Jesus man, read what I write, not what you *think* I write.Since IV are not tied down to some money sucking corperation, they can make such intresting changes as they please without giving any higher management heart attacks
the context that comes from and your insistence that darksuns paranoid questions be answered, which they will, is where that idea comes from. now it might not have been your intent, but it certainly seemed like you were infering valve would be that money sucking corperation.
Heh. You really do like to make stuff up based on putting two random tings together. Darksuns questions are not paranoid, they are questions that IV would want answering before they even considerd the idea of putting Darwinia on Steam. As for inferring that I'm reffering to Valve as a money sucking corp, thats really clever, but not at all what I'm talking about.
caleb_grey wrote:I don't belive its going to be a "magical" success. But there's people out there (and on these forums) that hammerd the gesture system because it didn't work for them, they found it unneeded and wanted something simpler. IV listens to such things. This is why you're seeing the change. Now read what I wrote:I wrote:If it gets Darwinia to those who hated the gestures system, then great.
Note the if. I'm not saying it will. It might fail horribly. But if it doesn't, then thats great.
well then we have different opinions on why iv is "adding" this "easy" option, that imo will break the key gameplay. its basically the same either way though really. money.
Really? As far as I see it, the key motivation has been due to comments against the gestures system from other people. Yeah, its a uniqu-ish idea (been done before, but I've not seen it as seamless as this), but not everyone does gestures.
caleb_grey wrote:As for the actual issue of what consitites of gameplay, I don't belive that a control system is the whole or key gameplay. Darwinia has a story, and a damn good one at that. If the story can't carry the game alone, then people are looking at the wrong part of the game.
well for me, the whole key to what makes this game great is the timing and tension of trying to input a graphical symbol to run a program. removing this feature to me breaks the gameplay. if you think the story is what is carrying this game, well thats your opinion and you are entitled to. as i am to mine and my opinion is your opinion is once again silly.
I see. I'm working from facts rather than opinion (go look up the "pros" of any Darwinia review, and the story will *always* be there, or be highly praised in the review), and you're calling it silly. Eh, each to their own.
caleb_grey wrote:Where did I say it was innovative? Really, where did I say it? I said it was 'intresting', yeah, because IV have made such intresting changes before, but I never said it was innovative. You're doing it again, reading what you want to argue rather than reading what I'm writing.
oh forgive me i transposed a word by mistake. lets get out the pitch forks. atleast they both start with the same letter, sorta like steam, and source huh?
There's a huge diffrence between 'innovative' and 'intresting', unlike the diffrence between 'steam' and 'source'. (don't make me start pointing them out, I'm assuming you do have a sufficent IQ to work it out for yourself.)
caleb_grey wrote:What "hoops" are you reffering to? The day the game came out, I bought a copy using worldpay. It was that simple. It took a max of 5 mins to do. There was no hoop jumping done.
worldpay? never heard of it. infact i hadnt heard of iv either when i found out about darwinia. as explained earlier, just handing out my cc# over the internet to some entity i have no idea who they are, sorry i'm just not comfortable with that. i'm glad you had no hoops to go through, i did.
Worldpay is a store provider, and is the store that IV used before their new store.
caleb_grey wrote:Now, where on earth did you get this figure of 20,000+ downloads which are illegal? Hmm?
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&ie=utf8&oe=utf8&q=darwinia+torrents
Lets see:
http://www.google.com/search?q=you+suck
Wow! 7,620,000 websites agree that you suck!
Did you know that in your google search for 'darwinia torrent', I'm in there? I'm not providing an illegal copy of the game, I'm linking to the torrent for the linux setup, which requires a legit disk. Also, I would wager that about 98% of those "torrents" are fake links (i.e. versions that make you *think* they are real, but cut out after containment, asking you to buy the game.)
In short, don't use Google as the final word, or as proof that something is real.
caleb_grey wrote:As for "delays" with the store. IV's always had a store, worldplay. Its always been there. The new store is just that, removing the worldplay store and letting IV control it. (and my advice to you is to stop bashing the store, you don't know anything about its history.)
who is bashing the store? and why would i give a crap about its history? its an unkown quantity and thats all that matters to me and anyone who might have an interest in buying from it. i can whip up a similar looking store with some credit card pics, and a "we're secure" logo too. doesnt mean anyone else out there cant either. it happens. i should know i've fallen for it myself once.
You are by insinuating that the store isn't secure, or could be a fake one cooked up by some bored teen in an attempt to gain credit cards. Well, I hate to break it to you, but its not. The Darwinia store has a 256bit AES SSL connection. Your data is far safer over that than you putting your card into the ATM to get cash, or even handing it to someone at a store in the real world to buy something.
caleb_grey wrote:You said it could be done, and stuck with the conviction. I'm saying that it couldn't be done for a few reasons. If you don't like me calling you out on that, back it up and prove me wrong.
well considering i am not the only one who is saying it can be done in this thread, consider yourself proven.
I won't consider myself "proven" until you start proving things.
caleb_grey wrote:finally, back on topic.
I don't like to drift too far...
caleb_grey wrote:(insert actual facts (finally))
Ok, so it has a potential to increase sales, with a tiny fraction taken out by Valve for the pleasure of using Steam. So far it doesn't sound so bad.
caleb_grey wrote:how much of the games rights would be retained by IV and how much control would Valve/Steam have?
what makes you think iv would lose rights or control? it would depend on the deal they would sign. i would think it would be anywhere from none to all. it would be up to iv to decide that.
What makes me think that? Ambrosia gained so much control over Uplink when porting it to Mac that IV couldn't sell a devdisk for a Mac Uplink. Things like that make people ask such questions. Seeing as someone else asked what I was thinking, I'm not the only one who would like to know.
caleb_grey wrote:3 is really a bit crap. Both IV stores have had secure payments. as for 4, again, the new store is up. The hassle we had with it is over. (and as above, don't shout out about what you don't know).
secure to you is insecure to me. i dont know what your hangup is with the store, maybe the server is in your basement? i gave my reasons for it. dont like it? oh well.
So you're saying that a 256bit AES SSL connection is insecure? Heh. I would wager your forum password isn't even more than 10 characters.
As for my hangup with the store? I helped create it. In a join effort between me and IV, we got the store running in about 2 months, doing a admin section from scratch. If you decide to ever trust the store and order something, have a peak at the invoice you get. What you see is the result of code that I did (with John pulling at it if you get an A4 sized version). If you are in a country that requires a CN22 (customs form), peak at the name in the sig. (infact, general call to anyone who has their CN22 lying about, do tell us whats on it
)You did give your reasons, but they are rather pathetic and shallow. "OMG ITS INSECURE!112321!!ONEONETWO" is not exactly the kind of reply I expected from you.
caleb_grey wrote:As for 5, uh, yeah. How do you work that one out? HL2's protection was cracked (ok, steam did patch and ban those people, but by then people already had the illegal copies).
yes it was, a year ago. and since darwinia is already out there in the wild in its current form its too little too late. polish it up, get the multiplay in there, maybe a small expansion and some easier tools, and there would be a reason to want it agian. how many people out of that 20,000 who downloaded it illegally, would pay for that? why did those 20,000 download it? obviously because they had an interest. how many of those 20,000 dl it because they didnt want to buy from the "store". how many of them would have bought it if popped up on steam? how many used the dl as an extended demo and decided the gestures was the reason they didnt want to purchase? i think you know where i stand on that.
Yeah, you stand on a figure gained from a google search. I'm sticking with my 7.6 million people, and I'm going to say you suck for doing so. [/ironic]
caleb_grey wrote:1 by having it available in a known and trusted outlet selling it
Ok, I'm assuming you're not a UK dweller. If you were, you can find Darwinia in such stores as:
- HMV
- Dixons
- PC World
- Game
- Game station
- Amazon
- Virgin
Those are respeciable companies, not some 2bit shop. They are also well known. Steam, while being great and all, would only be another name in an already great list.
caleb_grey wrote: are there any sales figures availabe for it?
If 'it' reffers to sales of Darwinia, I could see if I can prod a few out of IV. No promises though.
caleb_grey wrote:I dunno. Your posts seem half-thought out, they seem to argue things that I'm not saying or never had, and generally lack proof. Please start showing proof.
hey, just because its my first post and thread here, doesnt mean its my first on the internets.
Did I say it was?
caleb_grey wrote: i only want whats best for iv. i respect what they do, find them increadably creative, and enjoy the game. i want more. i want it to succeed, and i want more games from them in the future.
I agree with you here, I really do. IV, though, has way more up their sleaves than what you see here. Currently IV's laied down two aces. You've yet to see the flop (note, poker term, not flop as in failure). Are you suggesting that people are wise to bet against them? I am certinally not
caleb_grey wrote:hopefully we get that. on steam
Mabey you will, mabey you won't. Multiplayer is actually already in Darwinia. Its just sitting behind a few years of code rot, and is rather, uhm, tempermential to say the least. Darwinia's future will more likley to hit an X-Box deal than hit Steam first, so play your bet well.
NeoThermic
