Darwinia in reality

[martin]

In normal situations I would just say STFU but... this is prophile. He deserves something more derogatory, I'll work on it.
In the meantime if anyone wants to join the group then mail me.

[pumatekat]

The way I see it is you have to simulate things like the 5 senses in an evironment. every object would have to have to information about its properties to the AI. Weather or not the AI took this information and used it is upto the creator of the AI. But to make an evironment like your talking about would take alot. I think thats the whole thing with all this. Just like people your infulenced by your environment and the other people around you. Your wanting to make a complex environment like this? Imagine people could start out by makeing simple creatures. Say like a earth worm or something. The environment of an earthworm is like damp dirt with a certain temprature range. Just thinking about damp dirt that is a certain temp in a large environment thats very complex. But your AI would only be able to be as complex as your environment alowed. Well ya understand what i'm saying from my ramble?

[martin]

em, I think so! BAsically, the more complex an environment the more complex your AI can be - that is my entire purpose for building this. How will a 2D sheet that just has creatures and food ever produce something complex? As for the complexity of building this kind of thinf... I know!

[hitm4n]

AI is a set of programmed rules that the flower/worm/ant/droid/pixel will follow. This ruleset can be as simple or as complicated as martin wishes. I wish people would stop telling him he can't do it !! I'm only a beginner programmer and even i could make a simple (minimal rules) AI program. Someone with a bit more programming know-how could make an environment for "whatever" to live in and provide it a richer AI command set. Other programmers could plug-in their sets of rules too, if it was designed that way...

[xander]

AI is a set of programmed rules that the flower/worm/ant/droid/pixel will follow. This ruleset can be as simple or as complicated as martin wishes. I wish people would stop telling him he can't do it !! I'm only a beginner programmer and even i could make a simple (minimal rules) AI program. Someone with a bit more programming know-how could make an environment for "whatever" to live in and provide it a richer AI command set. Other programmers could plug-in their sets of rules too, if it was designed that way...

There are two senses in which the term AI is generally used, and they should probably not be confused. The first is the sense that you use. In this sense of the word, the Game of Life is an AI -- each pixel follows a set of rules. When people talk about AI in video game, this is what they are talking about -- a set of rules followed by an entity.

AI is also used in another sense to mean an artificial entity capable of passing the Turing Test. In other words, an entity that is indistinguishable from a human being; an entity that can think. This is a much more narrow definition, and is what is implied by the topic title "Darwinia in Reality." I think that the reason martin has received so much flak here for talking about AI is that most people assume he means this sense of the word. He is trying to tackle a problem that has stumped the best minds in computers and mathematics. That is why he is not taken that seriously with regards to this topic.

xander

[shinygerbil]

How will a 2D sheet that just has creatures and food ever produce something complex?

You'd be surprised. Unless you mean "complex" as in "I need a Cray".

EDIT: I suppose I'm talking more in terms of chaos. But still, you'd be surprised

[hitm4n]

AI is a set of programmed rules that the flower/worm/ant/droid/pixel will follow. This ruleset can be as simple or as complicated as martin wishes. I wish people would stop telling him he can't do it !! I'm only a beginner programmer and even i could make a simple (minimal rules) AI program. Someone with a bit more programming know-how could make an environment for "whatever" to live in and provide it a richer AI command set. Other programmers could plug-in their sets of rules too, if it was designed that way...

There are two senses in which the term AI is generally used, and they should probably not be confused. The first is the sense that you use. In this sense of the word, the Game of Life is an AI -- each pixel follows a set of rules. When people talk about AI in video game, this is what they are talking about -- a set of rules followed by an entity.

AI is also used in another sense to mean an artificial entity capable of passing the Turing Test. In other words, an entity that is indistinguishable from a human being; an entity that can think. This is a much more narrow definition, and is what is implied by the topic title "Darwinia in Reality." I think that the reason martin has received so much flak here for talking about AI is that most people assume he means this sense of the word. He is trying to tackle a problem that has stumped the best minds in computers and mathematics. That is why he is not taken that seriously with regards to this topic.

xander

This i know. And thats why i'm amazed people are assuming martin means your second definition and giving him flak for it. He doesn't have a team of top minds and 2 million quid to invest in the hardware. Its obvious its gonna be a darwinian type landscape with entities following some rules. The ruleset can be extensive as he likes, and darwinians can make random decisions when faced with a choice. If a decision leads to the entities death then the probability of the next entity making the same decision can be reduced. This gives the illusion of AI and learning from their mistakes. This AI can be as simple or complex as the programmer has the ability for or time to do.

[martin]

AI is a set of programmed rules that the flower/worm/ant/droid/pixel will follow. This ruleset can be as simple or as complicated as martin wishes. I wish people would stop telling him he can't do it !! I'm only a beginner programmer and even i could make a simple (minimal rules) AI program. Someone with a bit more programming know-how could make an environment for "whatever" to live in and provide it a richer AI command set. Other programmers could plug-in their sets of rules too, if it was designed that way...

There are two senses in which the term AI is generally used, and they should probably not be confused. The first is the sense that you use. In this sense of the word, the Game of Life is an AI -- each pixel follows a set of rules. When people talk about AI in video game, this is what they are talking about -- a set of rules followed by an entity.

AI is also used in another sense to mean an artificial entity capable of passing the Turing Test. In other words, an entity that is indistinguishable from a human being; an entity that can think. This is a much more narrow definition, and is what is implied by the topic title "Darwinia in Reality." I think that the reason martin has received so much flak here for talking about AI is that most people assume he means this sense of the word. He is trying to tackle a problem that has stumped the best minds in computers and mathematics. That is why he is not taken that seriously with regards to this topic.

xander

This i know. And thats why i'm amazed people are assuming martin means your second definition and giving him flak for it. He doesn't have a team of top minds and 2 million quid to invest in the hardware. Its obvious its gonna be a darwinian type landscape with entities following some rules. The ruleset can be extensive as he likes, and darwinians can make random decisions when faced with a choice. If a decision leads to the entities death then the probability of the next entity making the same decision can be reduced. This gives the illusion of AI and learning from their mistakes. This AI can be as simple or complex as the programmer has the ability for or time to do.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh

sorry, had to get that off my chest...
right then - since no one seems to have read back I'll just recap - I AM NOT TRYING TO BUILD ANY AI OF ANY SORTS!!!! OK??

I have explained before that what I am trying to build is a self consistent environment with realistic, consistent, laws of physics. You can plug any AI into it that you like, but I'm not building the AI - justy a universal environment for AIs to plug into.

As for the two definitons of AI xander isn't quite right - The ruleset AI type is colloquially known as Artificial Stupidity. No learning is involved here - except maybe evolution.

The second type is true AI - some sort of complex system that leanrs and becomes intelligent for itself.

[shinygerbil]

As for the two definitons of AI xander isn't quite right - The ruleset AI type is known as Artificial Stupidity. No learning is involved here - except maybe evolution.

So... is that a technical term??

Sorry to sound very much like a troll here, but I'm sure there's no such offically accepted term. You're probably thinking along the lines of evolutionary computation.

[martin]

sorry, colloquially known as. but you see my point.

[prophile]

What's wrong with a previously existing 3D SDK like CrystalSpace or such?

[martin]

I fancied like programming something?
Seriously... I had no programming experience when I started this, and it seemed like such a big project that I'd be able to break it into lots and lots of small modules - which I can - lots and lots of practice.

[BaconIsGood4You]

I'm pretty sure creating seed AI is going to be a bit difficult unless you have the greatest programmers and the fastest computers in the world.

[hitm4n]

omg. please read a thread before replying.

[martin]

omg. please read a thread before replying.

thankyou hitm4n, stop me saying that THERE IS A GREAT BLOODY RANT ABOVE THAT YOU SHOULD HAVE BLOODY READ!