Multiwinia/Darwinia Compatibility?

Working on new maps for Multiwinia? Discuss!

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00Davo
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Multiwinia/Darwinia Compatibility?

Postby 00Davo » Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:19 pm

Apparently, Multiwinia is very very similar to Darwinia in the code. So, when the Big Mod Patch comes out, will it be possible to run and make Darwinia mods for Multiwinia, by which I mean: a mod featuring the classic Task Manager interface, free spawning of Squads and Engineers, lots of Virii to defeat, research levels to raise, and objective-based goals, much like the original Darwinia, except for being multiplayer.

What would happen if you tried to load, say, Insurrection into Multiwinia? Would you end up with a fun co-operative game of Insurrection, or a crash? Will it ever be possible to make Darwinia mods for Multiwinia?
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Postby MikeTheWookiee » Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:51 pm

My immediate thinking is that it will all fail horribly, what with being entirely different and all. Saying that, I did notice upon unraring the data files that there is in fact a large amount of stuff (pictures, etc) left over from Darwinia. Maybe they are used in some arcane, unknown-to-me way though, and aren't some sort of keep-for-later thing.

I do hope I'm wrong, but unfortunately I doubt it.
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Postby jelco » Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:07 pm

The Task Manager doesn't work in Multiwinia anymore (there's something I could say about this but unfortunately it's NDA'd ;)). Engineers aren't needed for obtaining control stations anymore, and indeed Spawn Points work radically different because they need to be linked to a source of souls. Virii still work in Multiwinia and can be teamless (that is, they will be on the side of the Evilinians). All in all, the main game mechanics work radically different. Some heavy editing of the mod files might work, but it's going to take a lot of time and won't work like a co-op version of Darwinia - it'll be more like a campaign version of Multiwinia. ;)

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Postby xander » Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:09 pm

jelco wrote:...indeed Spawn Points work radically different because they need to be linked to a source of souls...

Um... this has always been true of SpawnPoints...

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Postby jelco » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:02 pm

EDIT: Ok, sorry, I sort of seemed to have forgotten the difference between Incubators and Spawn Points. Sorry about that. :)

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Postby 00Davo » Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:54 am

jelco wrote:The Task Manager doesn't work in Multiwinia anymore (there's something I could say about this but unfortunately it's NDA'd ;)).

You know, just saying that is probably NDA'd. :P

jelco wrote:Virii still work in Multiwinia and can be teamless (that is, they will be on the side of the Evilinians).

As I discovered when I got the Eggs last game. Having an army of ultimate Virii warriors is awesome.

By the way, what exactly are the Evilwinians supposed to be? Presumably they're Virii-aligned Darwinians, except that the Red Darwinians are Virii-aligned Darwinians, and the Evilwinians shoot the Reds.

jelco wrote:All in all, the main game mechanics work radically different. Some heavy editing of the mod files might work, but it's going to take a lot of time and won't work like a co-op version of Darwinia - it'll be more like a campaign version of Multiwinia. ;)

Oh.

Hey, there's an idea. Ever bought a Source engine game? Notice that you get the game, and additionally the Source SDK Base. The Base is the Source engine, which you obviously need to play Source games. You can use the Source SDK to make games using the Base, and use stuff from the game you bought too.

So, why not make a great big general "winia" engine? It could be called, um... Protologic, and would be a generic engine for "winia" games. It comes with an SDK, for building mods from scratch - this also incorporates the modding capabilities for individual games. This SDK starts with very limited features - you can't make, well, anything much with just the SDK, which is why it's designed to be very, very modular.

When you purchase a Protologic game, it "snaps in" to your SDK, and the added features it provides are added to your modding arsenal. To create a multiplayer mod, you'd need to buy Multiwinia first, while to make a campaign mod, you'd need to buy Darwinia. Purchasing Multiwinia would also provide the crate system, multiple teams, the Darwinian quick-circle move feature, and other Multiwinia-specific stuff. Purchasing Darwinia would provide the Task Manager, objective system, world map, and other Darwinia-specific stuff. If additional "winia" games are created, they could snap new and different concepts into your SDK.

Thoughts?
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Postby bert_the_turtle » Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:29 am

00Davo wrote:By the way, what exactly are the Evilwinians supposed to be? Presumably they're Virii-aligned Darwinians, except that the Red Darwinians are Virii-aligned Darwinians, and the Evilwinians shoot the Reds.

Heart of Chaos map desctiption wrote:A turning point in the history of the Red tribe occurred here, as they regained their free-will and stopped being influenced by the Virus. The Virus has since stopped using living Multiwinians to do its work

The reds are now free of the virus, and presumably the Evilinians are the new virus controlled guys, and they're dead.
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Postby jelco » Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:27 am

00Davo wrote:Hey, there's an idea. Ever bought a Source engine game? Notice that you get the game, and additionally the Source SDK Base. The Base is the Source engine, which you obviously need to play Source games. You can use the Source SDK to make games using the Base, and use stuff from the game you bought too.

So, why not make a great big general "winia" engine? It could be called, um... Protologic, and would be a generic engine for "winia" games. It comes with an SDK, for building mods from scratch - this also incorporates the modding capabilities for individual games. This SDK starts with very limited features - you can't make, well, anything much with just the SDK, which is why it's designed to be very, very modular.

When you purchase a Protologic game, it "snaps in" to your SDK, and the added features it provides are added to your modding arsenal. To create a multiplayer mod, you'd need to buy Multiwinia first, while to make a campaign mod, you'd need to buy Darwinia. Purchasing Multiwinia would also provide the crate system, multiple teams, the Darwinian quick-circle move feature, and other Multiwinia-specific stuff. Purchasing Darwinia would provide the Task Manager, objective system, world map, and other Darwinia-specific stuff. If additional "winia" games are created, they could snap new and different concepts into your SDK.

Thoughts?

To be honest I'd be really surprised if a third game would pop up in the Darwinia universe. It may be the most successful game to date (critically) but I wouldn't expect IV to stay stuck in that forever. "It's time to move on", as some would say.

That, and the fact that Chris said "Subversion is the best game we will ever make" in one of his blogs. ;)

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Postby Cyan. » Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:35 am

CAn't remember that too I think :). Tho I doubt he will be still such ambitious after the fiasco of multiwinia, wich it doesn't deserve at all. Tho maybe the foundation will be great and then hopefully a lot of players will see the future of it and buy the fucking game, so that they can patch it up to the BEST GAME EVER, Hey they got a lot to beat after MW.
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Postby 00Davo » Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:44 am

jelco wrote:To be honest I'd be really surprised if a third game would pop up in the Darwinia universe. It may be the most successful game to date (critically) but I wouldn't expect IV to stay stuck in that forever. "It's time to move on", as some would say.

Perhaps if Protologic was released as the Winia Dev CD? It could, like Darwinia+, incorporate both Winias, but have them running on one, hopefully stable, engine.

There would be no more official games to snap in (unless IV change their minds and release a third Winia game), but unofficial expansions would certainly be possible, it being a Dev CD. It would sell, too, if only for the super-powered mod capabilities afforded by a Dev CD. I'd buy it several times, both for me and to gift to friends, even though I already bought both Winias.

Because IV games need a subtitle, it could be called "Protologic: Chronicles Of Darwinia". And then the mods would be further chronicles and stuff, and it'd be really good.
jelco wrote:That, and the fact that Chris said "Subversion is the best game we will ever make" in one of his blogs. ;)

What's Subversion? I haven't read the blogs... :P Presumably a game IV are going to release which will be incredible?
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Postby Xocrates » Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:54 am

Where did it said it was a fiasco? The game might have gotten less (early) sales than predicted, but that was probably more due to a lack of exposure than anything else.

Also, I recall Chris stating at one point during (early?) development what he expected Multiwinia to be, given everything that happened and everything that is still to happen (namely XBLA release) I don't think he was that far out, and therefore I would certainly not call Multiwinia a fiasco.
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Postby Cyan. » Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:58 am

as a game certainly not, but if price drops are going to be so quick and so much of a difference, I'll waite next time. Seriously if it was all going by plan and the early pricing was just meant to rip-off loyal IV supportrs, why don't ask for donations instead then? Atleast then I wouldn't feel ripped-off. Not to say I am a loyal IV supporter of feel riped-off. Just saying tho.
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Postby Xocrates » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:15 pm

I didn't said things were going as planned, I said the game wasn't a fiasco.
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Postby 00Davo » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:17 pm

Xocrates wrote:Where did it said it was a fiasco? The game might have gotten less (early) sales than predicted, but that was probably more due to a lack of exposure than anything else.

Possibly also due to playing the demo first. The Multiwinia demo has a lot of gameplay in it, what with all the available levels.
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Postby Cyan. » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:21 pm

you're right. let's hope it isn't a fiasco! But atleast is seemed to look that way, in the beginning.

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