Rules of War?

[Pinky]

Backstabbing in DEFCON is unsportsmanlike? While this is being elitist you are provably wrong.

DEFCONs Diplomacy game mode is entirely built on the concept of backstabbing, and it's as important, if not more so, than your actual skill at the game. If you don't like it then you can always play a game with locked teams.

Multiwinia isn't a team game, although some levels are co-op. We need teamchat, or else I'm getting a friend to play with me, and devise some code so that we can plan without the Defender knowing what we're doing.

For example

Attacker 1: Pass the ducklings through the snorkel
Attacker 2: (aside) Okay, I'll capture the spawns
Defender: ???

[Feud]

Attacker 1: Pass the ducklings through the snorkel
Attacker 2: (aside) Okay, I'll capture the spawns
Defender: ???

I see that somebody reads the XKCD blag.

[Kuth]

On DEFCON, I disagree. I feel I'm not enjoying the game any less if I cooperate with my teamates in DEFCON. I Shouldn't HAVE TO backstab in order to have fun. Frankly, I feel only the ultra-competitive jerks out there would insist backstabbing is essential to enjoying the game. It is because some feel that backstabbing is a necessity that I hardly played online, and almost never play DEFCON now. They ruin my enjoyment of the game.

I like Defcon for what it is: a warboard caricature with nuclear weapons. For this reason I play against the AI.

I like Multiwinia better for several reasons. In addition to my comments above, Multiwinia doesn't seem to require pressure of any kind to have fun.

[MrBunsy]

On DEFCON, I disagree. I feel I'm not enjoying the game any less if I cooperate with my teamates in DEFCON. I Shouldn't HAVE TO backstab in order to have fun. Frankly, I feel only the ultra-competitive jerks out there would insist backstabbing is essential to enjoying the game. It is because some feel that backstabbing is a necessity that I hardly played online, and almost never play DEFCON now. They ruin my enjoyment of the game.

I like Defcon for what it is: a warboard caricature with nuclear weapons. For this reason I play against the AI.

Meh, AI was boring - people were far more fun because you couldn't trust them. Winning required you to be able to persuade people to do what you wanted them to do

[Pinky]

If you wanted a change from the normal backstab fest, play with locked teams.

The AI paled in comparison to a human player, so teamlock is a much more favourable solution than Single Player.

[Xocrates]

I feel I'm not enjoying the game any less if I cooperate with my teamates in DEFCON. I Shouldn't HAVE TO backstab in order to have fun.

While this is entirely true, it doesn't make backstabbing any less of a valid tactic.

And come on, Defcon was designed so that backstabbing was a crucial part of the game. There's a reason one of the achievements on Multiwinia consists of backstabbing your ally

[IronWill]

On most games I played there is no rule.

Once only we all accepted to not drop any more ant's nest and all players agreed to send airstrikes on currently running ant's nests. But the main reason was that we were all lagging fps as hell.

[xander]

What I think a lot of people miss is that every computer game has rules. Probably hundreds of them. In the real world, the rules of games are socially constructed -- they depend upon the agreement of all of the participants, and are malleable. Some games are more set than others (i.e. chess vs a pickup game of baseball), but even so, there are house rules and variants particular to certain groups.

In a computer game, most (if not all) of the rules are imposed by the program itself. In Multiwinia, DGs can't fly. This is a rule imposed by the physics of the game. In Defcon, backstabbing is possible and allowed. This is a rule imposed by the alliance structure of the game. If you are making up other rules to play the game by, that is fine, but don't expect other players to go along with you, and don't get upset when they don't.

The only time that I can see getting upset is when people exploit bugs in a game in order to win. That is certainly not fair. But, that is what the forums are for -- report them bugs. ;)

xander

[IronWill]

I agreed a lot of time to not use ants and that made the game be a lot lot more efficient in perfs.

[Kuth]

TBH, I think I'd rather play DEFCON with FFA. If everybody feels team unity cannot be respected (indeed, exploited) then why bother to play with teams anyway if you cannot trust your teammates? Gambling on whether or not they're a bigger sucker than you are and will be vulnerable to YOU backstabbing?

If I'm playing on a team, I'd expect cooperation. In FPSs, when a teammate kills friends as well as foes just to get that one unlock, I'd hope he'd be banned instead of rewarded for his behavior. While this doesn't entirely apply to DEFCON, it's this same sentiment that makes me unable to enjoy backstab-fests everyone feels are an essential part to DEFCON gameplay.

How would you feel if your ally on assault started aiding the enemy to kill the WMD? Using his powerups to hurt his own side? I'd feel this is the same thing as DEFCON backstabbing.

I won't get anyone's agreement on this I think, but this is how I feel about the issue.