Bank Heist gameplay video

It's all in your head

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bootwo
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Heat

Postby bootwo » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:05 am

You should be able to recon during a mission and not having to be able to take action as was mentioned above. There should be some form of heat. I know in Uplink, if you did the same thing over and over to the Social Security Dtaabase, they never improved security, only tried to track you down. The possibility of having some sort of 'heat' that if there are several banks robberies in a row, there might be few additional guards. I know this could be hard to implement, but it is an interesting concept and worked well in Evil Genius.
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Postby matty406 » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:56 pm

Yeah, I think the city would seem a lot more natural if companies reacted accordingly to your actions in the long run.
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Hello and my two cents

Postby Vampyre » Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:58 pm

Hello all of you guys... I'm following Subversion from the very first blog posts that occured, and always wondered where it would lead.

But reading on this thread made me wanted to react.

In the video, the only reference was "much like in Mission Impossible Serie". After reading this thread, I can only imagine your references being "Heat". Which is a great movie of course. I love that one, and I must say that the bank attack in the movie was astonishing at the theater when it was out. Even in Home Cinema, and after quite a few years now, it's still great looking, and perfect sounds.

But, thinking of a "Heat" scenario in a game would make it even less interesting. Let's take back a few examples I read here.

- If it was a FPS, it couldn't be possible to see on the other sides of the walls. If you are made up of a team, what would be the point, in a gameplay term I mean, pointing your gun on the hostages ? I'm not sure it would be fun. And even if you can swap between the characters, how would you do to be sure an hostage is not going out of the bank while you play another character ?

- With the 3 phases like mentioned before, I can clearly see the "Heat" effect. Yes, they plan everything carefully in the movie. And they stick with the plan. They scout, they calculate, they get informed. So yes, it could be done. But now, let's see this from a gameplay term again. You go to a computer, and hack systems to get informations, maps, access to the cameras, and see where are the weak points. That would just be another kind of uplink (which is great of course), but instead of having 1 game, it would have two there. For the second face, you go on the terrain, and watch and scout, evaluating the forces in places... Would it be fun ? Not sure at all. And for the third phase, you would start with your collected informations, prepare your actions on the map, and then click start. You would then just watch your strategy being applied. This kind of gameplay is of course great (there are good games, if you want only one, check Frozen Synapse, or Gratuitous Space Battles). But it wouldn't stick for this game, and would make it less interesting. It would be fun for the two first hours, and then ? When you fail, you learn and modify your actions in consequences ? Yes, probably, but it would be also mean that the level is totally scripted, and cannot react with what the player is actually doing.

I don't want to flame any one here, just giving my opinion on this video. I like the video. I like what I've seen, and by watching it carefully, I notice that Chris didn't used the guy waiting outside the bank. It could have been another solution, another way around. This way of doing things, even if less interesting or more paceful, just make things reacts with what you do, and there is for sure not just one way to beat the level, but 5 or 6. And that's what I like. Despite the graphics (I so love those kind of graphics), that's what I like the most in a game : redo the same things again and again, and having different things all the time...

I think that what Chris is doing right now is very well thought, with multiple possibilities to do things, and just that is fun enough for me. I hate scripted levels : each time you do them, you are doing the same things. Here, it seems a lot more dynamics, even if the intensity is very low just by the look of it...

Only my thoughts here :-) I don't mean to have right. Just saying what I think :-)
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Postby Yrael » Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:02 pm

Agreeing. I think their game design genius is not to be proven :) So we can fairly be sure it's going to be a full and well built game.

A few thinks to notice :

-It won't only consist in those missions phases but also in "car chases" which could mean : open city ?? (indeed why proceduraly generate all the city, every building if don't use it)
-Loads of way to do a mission. Blow up a hole in the wall next to the safe, go in guns up in a classic hold up scenario, break in and silence everyone from a back door, the infiltration shown, hacking... etc... and without even knowing all the tools we will have i've just set up a set of strategies. Which implies a TON of possibilites.

And that's just the bog standard "low level cash earning mission", as Chris said... On a small demo level. I think the possibilities are just too astounding, and it's too early in the game dev' to be able to see what could go wrong or not.

Just to say that Subversion is THE game i'm waiting for. When game industry is going for blockbusters with no flavour...
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Agree

Postby Vampyre » Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:42 pm

My turn now to agree with you :-)

Especially this one :
Just to say that Subversion is THE game i'm waiting for. When game industry is going for blockbusters with no flavour...


I chase good indie games, and this one is for sure the one I expect. In my top 10, this one is number 1 !
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Postby Harle » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:31 pm

bert_the_turtle wrote:Yeah, I can see that as a problem. Planning the heist was not required at all, it was all just improvisation.


It's a demonstration, and he built the level and everything in it. Of course it didn't require planning, he's probably played it dozens and dozens of times. ;P

Obvious it wasn't a terribly difficult mission, but it likely wasn't supposed to be. He had a short amount of time to demo the tech and the gameplay, it wouldn't make sense to make the mission difficult if he has time constraints. Remember that a public demo is not like watching your friend play a game, or watching a reviewer play a game. It's the developer with a set of goals and requirements, and those goals and requirements aren't game-related so much as demonstration related.

The level showed how you could use the telephone lines and hack into security and various other methods to bypass what minimal security the bank had. It had a couple of guards and the only high security was in the bank vault itself. In that situation he could have just gone in, shot some people, told the bank manager to open the vault, and left with probably a similar amount of time left on the clock. On the other hand, if he had time he could have disabled security and probably gotten away with the job without anyone noticing. It's just a matter of context. I can definitely see how bigger, more complex missions with layers of security would allow for less improvisation. After all, if they had triggered alarms before they opened the vault, they would have been pooched. It's just that there wasn't ample enough security.
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Postby Legion303 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:09 am

That was awesome. I would have liked the safecracking to be more realistic, but I accept that you have to simplify things for the sake of gameplay.

I really like the fact that there are multiple paths to achieve your goal.

-steve
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Bolka
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Long term potential

Postby Bolka » Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:20 pm

The thing that strikes me most about this game is the huge potential it seems to have long term (as in several years).
What seems to be the best strategy for Introversion is to get this game to an acceptable level and get it out get some payback from the years of work. Then launch extensions. Extensions could focus on higher end game, such as:

. Higher security banks that actually require proper planning for higher reward
. Other type of missions, like being contracted by spying agencies from governments to steal documents in embassies, etc..
. Introduce more "pedigree" to your avatar, such as standings with potential employers, and scales of values: "thug vs gentleman", "Good vs evil", "famous vs stealth', etc.. that would influence the missions you get
. Reach a size of organization that you have an HQ and can be attacked...

and so on... that should provide more frequent returns for less work if the software is prepared for it and IV can come up with creative content, and could extend the gameplay for years

Of course first the game has to come out...
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Postby biotech » Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:47 pm

I am so happy to see a vid I got all the products, I keep track of everything on rss feeds and occasionaly popping onto the site, but I love how far it went on the vid as time goes on since I bet it has come on a treat :)
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Postby RMJ1984 » Wed May 04, 2011 1:22 am

Well the game is far from finish. add some cool atmosphere, add some music, add the whole stealth aspect, like you feel in uplink.

You cant judge a game on that, i wouldn even call this stage alpha for the game.

This game has huge potential.
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Re: Long term potential

Postby mrxak » Thu May 05, 2011 6:08 pm

Bolka wrote:The thing that strikes me most about this game is the huge potential it seems to have long term (as in several years).
What seems to be the best strategy for Introversion is to get this game to an acceptable level and get it out get some payback from the years of work. Then launch extensions. Extensions could focus on higher end game, such as:

. Higher security banks that actually require proper planning for higher reward
. Other type of missions, like being contracted by spying agencies from governments to steal documents in embassies, etc..
. Introduce more "pedigree" to your avatar, such as standings with potential employers, and scales of values: "thug vs gentleman", "Good vs evil", "famous vs stealth', etc.. that would influence the missions you get
. Reach a size of organization that you have an HQ and can be attacked...

and so on... that should provide more frequent returns for less work if the software is prepared for it and IV can come up with creative content, and could extend the gameplay for years

Of course first the game has to come out...


I like your idea about pedigree. I think anything that gives you an emotional connection with your people doing the physical work at the location is going to be something they'd want to focus on. What do I care if some of them get shot by security or whatever, if they're just faceless drones. I'm here on my computer miles away safe and sound.

Personally I think they should make a complete game, have it fun and ready before they release it, rather than a staggered approach. If they come up with a really cool idea to add, then sure, they can add content later on, but the whole incomplete + DLC later model pisses a lot of gamers off.
-mrxak
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svack
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Postby svack » Wed May 25, 2011 4:53 pm

I really hope its released with a level editor!
I can see fun times ahead exchanging maps with friends!

also, really reminds me of Syndicate with the who organisation thing, which is awesome!

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