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Subversion talk

Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:15 pm
by Jordy...
Reading Edge about Subversion, thanks Estel, I was kinda, let down a bit. Subversion looks good, sounds good, feels good, but... did my jaws

Of course, a lot is uncertain about this game, and everything might change, but going on what I know so far, I can't but view subversion as something like a glorified commando's, it doesn't really do anything with me. Perhaps this is due to the genre it chooses for, which, I don't know the impossible series, but it sounds kind of like the newer leverage series, about a "hight-tech" team that plans heists which each team-member having specific skills.
This genre automatically reminds me thus of B-movies and series, that try to come over as a serious, while acting like tools from the 80s are top-notch. It kind of puts me of in this game. Either make it dead serious, deliver tension and all, or make it comical, but being comical while intending to be serious seems weird.

And I think the first would be the best option for this game. Make it more "hardcore", more intense, and less cheaply crafty.

It seems that Subversion tries to deliver a complex "world" with lot's of parameters to thinker with, in order to get trough.
But what I gather it feels fake, kitsch.
Now, I think I sound a little more negative then I mean too, so let me clarify, I think it is a proper game, which no doubt will be fun to play, and with proper graphics it could be easily promoted as an AAA game, and be better then most of them, but;

The system you have seems so awesome, and the ideas as well, only, I feel like you taking the easy route, cause you don't know properly what you want to do with it and how to do it.
This is the project IV spent most of there time on, or at least thinking about it, this is the "Magnum Opus" of Introversion, the game which will leave a mark in gaming history ^^. And I believe it's doable with this engine, it's beautiful, so please take a step or 2 back, think of a proper direction, and go for it! Don't clutter it with things, you know sounds cool on first sight, or will appeal to a lot of gamers, or whatever, but don't really leave more the a mediocre game behind..
No, take this game to the NEXT LEVEL!!!

If not, then I can understand perfectly, or maybe you are already on that next level, and I'm completely seeing this wrong, but in any case, I hope you see the beauty and possibilities of your ideas and system and will realize that it will take a lot of time to give it it's full potential, meaning, realize it when reasonable, but please continue working on it trough expansions or whatever (wouldn't be the first thing you abandond right ;p), cause I'm a believer in what this project holds in potential!!

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:30 pm
by Jordy...
Having slept a night over it, I might be able to explain myself better, I hope...

For Subversion IV, or Chris, chose to first fiddle around, play with his ideas, I think he said in some previous blogs, that he never had a real clear idea where Subversion would had, only vague notions of a possible game.

Out of this testing stage and playing around, came a beautiful engine, a city generator with art style and full of possibilities. I love just to see pictures of it, and I think anyone can be immensely proud of the fact that he created such a thing.
But then, I can imagine, time pressed on, money was tight, and IV had to have new big revenues in sight to make it trough the next couple of years... Chris got kicked out of Eden and had to start working to a more concrete game (this of course is all hypothetical).

Pressed in time, and with a lack of that one raw diamond idea, he started to fill up Subversion with a descent game idea, not groundbreaking or anything, but fun enough. And building further on this, it seemed kind if cool and was kind of cool to play.
So he elaborated on it, and continued down this road, but somewhere, I think you missed a turn and got to far into building this world with details and "superficial complexity", leaving the broader picture behind, together with the grand ideas.

That's how I feel, now you can judge me for me judging a game I've never played, and now very little about, that's fine, but this is just the feeling I get from what I read. And I wonder how other people feel about this.

That said, this game will probably do fine, be heralded as a great indie-game on release and will be a proper financial success for IV.
I just hope, after that, Chris breaks it all down, and starts working in Eden again from where he left of.


*Eden: A place of freedom, tranquility, happiness and more positive things.. :P

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:41 am
by wang

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:23 am
by bert_the_turtle
Haha, the only one who cares about Jordy is a spambot :)

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:23 pm
by Jordy...
:(, I'm not trying to be mean or talk trash or anything, I just am a little disappointed... but I'll withhold my critics from now one till release :arrow:

Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:40 am
by GuyNoir
I agree with you. Unless there's something big going on behind the scenes, I'm not sure what the real draw of this game will come from.

Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:10 am
by quickdan
I don't see why a game has to have some novel concept to make it be worthwhile, (I'm looking at you, just about any FPS, ever). Even if it is not completely the most original game in history, if it is fun people will still want to play it. I don't know about you guys, but performing heists sounds pretty cool to me, regardless of the technology used to make the game. In any case, we barely have any info on the game at this point. I for one am going to wait and see how it progresses and hope Chris keeps posting about making the game, because it is interesting.

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:30 am
I think the main draw of the game, at least for me, is the simulated security measures. The concept of screwing around with a fully mapped phone system, network, and security system is pretty cool. Figuring out unique ways to thwart electronic and human security seems very interesting. It's a very unique idea, but that's what Introversion is all about.

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:45 am
by quickdan
That was one reason I really enjoyed Uplink, because it's something I don't get to do in real life. Most of us don't get to be international hackers. Most of us don't get to rob banks. Introversion games are always very immersive and make you feel like you are in the game. One example in Uplink if you lose the game you have to restart from the beginning, it sucked but that made your decisions much harder, and in the end made the game better. Most games now don't make the gamer make tough choices. One game that was good at this was Heavy Rain. I was also interested in a sandbox mode in that you could setup and play around with security in a "safe" environment for practice then implement in the game.