I just remembered this project from a video I saw some time ago, and rediscovered it today. All the videos that have been posted are really exciting, and I would very much like to play Subversion when it's released. I use Linux exclusively, and I fear that I won't be able to play Subversion because of that. According to Wikipedia, all of Introversion's games have run on Linux, except for Multiwinia (which is troubling because it's the most recent one), but I couldn't find any links to Linux downloads/buy-here-pages in the store, just a big "Mac OSX users go here!" sign.
Does anyone (especially anyone involved in development) know if Subversion will be playable natively on Linux?
Linux support?
Moderators: jelco, bert_the_turtle, DTNC Vicious
I don't know about Subversion, sorry, but what you buy through the Introversion store, you get for PC AND for Linux.
etc.Uplink's store page wrote:Choose your OS: Runs on Windows and Linux.
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RabidZombie
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NeatNit wrote:I don't know about Subversion, sorry, but what you buy through the Introversion store, you get for PC AND for Linux.etc.Uplink's store page wrote:Choose your OS: Runs on Windows and Linux.
Except Multiwinia.
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RabidZombie
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Re: Linux support?
vede wrote:I just remembered this project from a video I saw some time ago, and rediscovered it today. All the videos that have been posted are really exciting, and I would very much like to play Subversion when it's released. I use Linux exclusively, and I fear that I won't be able to play Subversion because of that. According to Wikipedia, all of Introversion's games have run on Linux, except for Multiwinia (which is troubling because it's the most recent one), but I couldn't find any links to Linux downloads/buy-here-pages in the store, just a big "Mac OSX users go here!" sign.
Does anyone (especially anyone involved in development) know if Subversion will be playable natively on Linux?
I think that generally people who like introversion games probably also use linux or at least disagree with the monopoly microsoft has. I don't think introversion will gain anything from not releasing to linux.
Заремаколй юубални чу!
First off, that's a bump, but honestly I can't blame you since the Subversion forum isn't that active yet. 
The logic kinda works in reverse: there's pretty much nothing to lose by not releasing for Linux. I know there's several Linux gamers who firmly believe everyone who releases exclusively to Windows has sold their soul to Satan but those are people living in the illusion that their market share is anywhere near meaningful from a business perspective. Considering that you also need to put in additional effort for a port, it's not a choice you'll just make out of the blue whenever you feel like it. Releasing for the Mac has more potential to pay off and even that is not as much of a moneymaker as some Mac users make it out to be.
I'm not saying I'm against releasing for other platforms, I do believe that it's a good thing if developers do that and when a decision is made like this I'm supportive. Sadly, the truth is that a lot of people who ask for Mac/Linux releases of games are elitist assholes and make themselves extremely dislikeable by whining day in day out and looking down on anyone who still sticks to Windows. Simply put, Windows is the generally accepted PC platform for games, and from a developing perspective this is great since you can focus on one environment. Additionally, in the world of games, Windows is the monolithical dominator of the market share, completely crushing the business value of puny platforms like Mac and Linux because there simply aren't that many gamers on either. A lot of people who use Mac or Linux actually have a Windows machine exclusively for gaming because of this. I don't blame if you want to change that current situation, and I can understand it if you dislike this situation, but as long as there's jerks using these relatively small OSes presenting themselves as the ultimate platform, so important in the world that anyone not supporting it is an idiot, I have a hard time sympathising and frankly can't get myself to care.
And just to be clear, this is no offense to you in particular or to the gamers from either scene in general, but to certain other people in particular out there. You know who you are.
Jelco
PS: If anyone comes up with an argument like "if you don't try to change it, it never will" you haven't read my post and you should try again.
The logic kinda works in reverse: there's pretty much nothing to lose by not releasing for Linux. I know there's several Linux gamers who firmly believe everyone who releases exclusively to Windows has sold their soul to Satan but those are people living in the illusion that their market share is anywhere near meaningful from a business perspective. Considering that you also need to put in additional effort for a port, it's not a choice you'll just make out of the blue whenever you feel like it. Releasing for the Mac has more potential to pay off and even that is not as much of a moneymaker as some Mac users make it out to be.
I'm not saying I'm against releasing for other platforms, I do believe that it's a good thing if developers do that and when a decision is made like this I'm supportive. Sadly, the truth is that a lot of people who ask for Mac/Linux releases of games are elitist assholes and make themselves extremely dislikeable by whining day in day out and looking down on anyone who still sticks to Windows. Simply put, Windows is the generally accepted PC platform for games, and from a developing perspective this is great since you can focus on one environment. Additionally, in the world of games, Windows is the monolithical dominator of the market share, completely crushing the business value of puny platforms like Mac and Linux because there simply aren't that many gamers on either. A lot of people who use Mac or Linux actually have a Windows machine exclusively for gaming because of this. I don't blame if you want to change that current situation, and I can understand it if you dislike this situation, but as long as there's jerks using these relatively small OSes presenting themselves as the ultimate platform, so important in the world that anyone not supporting it is an idiot, I have a hard time sympathising and frankly can't get myself to care.
And just to be clear, this is no offense to you in particular or to the gamers from either scene in general, but to certain other people in particular out there. You know who you are.
Jelco
PS: If anyone comes up with an argument like "if you don't try to change it, it never will" you haven't read my post and you should try again.
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I think the Mac platform is getting bigger than what it was, indeed Steam is now offering Mac compatibility, but I agree with you about Windows being the most used OS, so therefore the main target for any game developper.
The extra effort IS something to be reckoned with, essentially with small indies like Introversion.
The extra effort IS something to be reckoned with, essentially with small indies like Introversion.
I use all 3 operating systems on a daily basis. My laptop computer is a Mac/Linux dual boot, and my desktop is a Windows/Linux. I think having the option, especially for indie game devs, to run it on any OS is a good idea. All those people that might not buy the game for either practical or ethical reasons because it has no linux or mac port add up. As netbooks get more powerful and are also running linux, people will want the option to play games on them. Anyway once you have a linux port it doesn't take much more to make it run on mac as they are basically the same platform.
I totally agree and as each system gets closer and closer graphics wise more games will be released for them.I think the Mac platform is getting bigger than what it was
If there were only two games to play in the world, I would choose a text editor and a good C compiler.
The userbases of Mac and Linux are expanding, but it really is not as rapidly as some fanboys out there make it out to be. Just take a look at some real-world statistics. In fact, quoting a certain page reveals something even more interesting:
Let's not forget that most people with Linux/Mac aren't really gamers, beyond the occasional webgame or the bundled material (the equivalent of Microsoft's Minesweeper, Solitaire and Pinball). When you look at the market for gamers, I think you might actually end up with figures even more to Windows' advantage. On top of that, what I said before, a lot of Mac/Linux owners who game a lot will use either a separate Windows machine for games or Bootcamp/Wine (if the emulator is willing to run smoothly).
On top of that, there's a lot of business-side issues with the ports, including licensing of middleware and the fact that the smaller userbase mean less production, which means there's less promotion for the ports and less copies carried by retailers. It's definitely a bit of a vicious circle, and I agree it would be nice to break that, but it's not going to happen for at least another few years and is not something an indie company can afford to take the lead in.
Steam on the Mac is a brave attempt, but also portrays a downside: there aren't that many games that actually have Mac ports. Most of the Windows-only games you have will not be able to run on your Mac and hence there is practically no reason to switch for gamers who have been clinging to Windows for their gaming needs. Although Valve is porting their library of games, I doubt it will convince a lot of people to switch, because Valve may hold a significant market share in gaming, it will not be enough if the other 99% of the industry refuses to switch along with them.
Apparently there's quite a page about all this up on Wikipedia, which gives a little more background.
Jelco
Mac usage share globally has been in a slow decline over the past several months, dropping below 5% in October. However, in the U.S. Mac share is increasing, reaching 11.41% in October from 11.32% in September and 11.20% in August.
Let's not forget that most people with Linux/Mac aren't really gamers, beyond the occasional webgame or the bundled material (the equivalent of Microsoft's Minesweeper, Solitaire and Pinball). When you look at the market for gamers, I think you might actually end up with figures even more to Windows' advantage. On top of that, what I said before, a lot of Mac/Linux owners who game a lot will use either a separate Windows machine for games or Bootcamp/Wine (if the emulator is willing to run smoothly).
On top of that, there's a lot of business-side issues with the ports, including licensing of middleware and the fact that the smaller userbase mean less production, which means there's less promotion for the ports and less copies carried by retailers. It's definitely a bit of a vicious circle, and I agree it would be nice to break that, but it's not going to happen for at least another few years and is not something an indie company can afford to take the lead in.
Steam on the Mac is a brave attempt, but also portrays a downside: there aren't that many games that actually have Mac ports. Most of the Windows-only games you have will not be able to run on your Mac and hence there is practically no reason to switch for gamers who have been clinging to Windows for their gaming needs. Although Valve is porting their library of games, I doubt it will convince a lot of people to switch, because Valve may hold a significant market share in gaming, it will not be enough if the other 99% of the industry refuses to switch along with them.
Apparently there's quite a page about all this up on Wikipedia, which gives a little more background.
Jelco
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bert_the_turtle
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The one recent statistic in favor of Linux/Mac ports:
http://www.humblebundle.com/
According to the info from the site, most of the sales of the HIB2 went to Windows, roughly 20% of the total to Mac and Linux each. That doesn't sound like much, but together, that's a significant contribution, and the average Mac customer payed 38% more than the average Windows customer, the average Linux customer 106% more. So really significant income came from the non-Windows versions there. It has to be noted, of course, that the Braid version for Linux was first available in the HIB2. That probably skewed both the sales numbers and purchase price.
http://www.humblebundle.com/
According to the info from the site, most of the sales of the HIB2 went to Windows, roughly 20% of the total to Mac and Linux each. That doesn't sound like much, but together, that's a significant contribution, and the average Mac customer payed 38% more than the average Windows customer, the average Linux customer 106% more. So really significant income came from the non-Windows versions there. It has to be noted, of course, that the Braid version for Linux was first available in the HIB2. That probably skewed both the sales numbers and purchase price.
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