Subversion Development - Any Suggestions Etc...
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I developed a writers block and am short on ideas for the sniper concept.
i have the core idea at mind, but the actual controls?
PRO:at first, i was thinking different weapons could shoot at different windows, so say one weapon can only shoot in horizontal rows, and the other, in vertical rows. Then, the other player would have to figure out the positions based on the shattered windows the snipers shot.
CON: when i realized how massive theses sniper wars would be, this idea seemed to tedious. it would work on a smaller scale, but not in a huge city, managing tons of snipers.
PRO: Then i thought, why not have this concept transformed into a Tower Defense type of game? The game would simply revolve around destroying enemy humvees and enemy snipers. Your snipers would be sent to positions using an armoured car, which would also be shot at.
CON: I wanted meeting places, where you have the decision to shoot the messenger or not. With A.I. shooting everything that moves, i saw this was not possible
i have the core idea at mind, but the actual controls?
PRO:at first, i was thinking different weapons could shoot at different windows, so say one weapon can only shoot in horizontal rows, and the other, in vertical rows. Then, the other player would have to figure out the positions based on the shattered windows the snipers shot.
CON: when i realized how massive theses sniper wars would be, this idea seemed to tedious. it would work on a smaller scale, but not in a huge city, managing tons of snipers.
PRO: Then i thought, why not have this concept transformed into a Tower Defense type of game? The game would simply revolve around destroying enemy humvees and enemy snipers. Your snipers would be sent to positions using an armoured car, which would also be shot at.
CON: I wanted meeting places, where you have the decision to shoot the messenger or not. With A.I. shooting everything that moves, i saw this was not possible
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Puzzlemaker
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With a procedurally generated world, it's very hard to have good AI. PVP is a must, but simply a deathmatch with so much potential available wouldn't be very fun.
Here are my ideas:
Players have "Hometowns", or Castles. They are cities the player generates. The player can modify the city, add security, troop patrols, etc. Each hometown has a Treasure, or Objective, that must be protected.
Other players can download over the web Castles players have made, and try to get to that players Objective, through his security.
Online Castles should have a rating option, and also store any attempts made on them, like how long it took, how many lives it took, etc.
My 2 Cents.
Here are my ideas:
Players have "Hometowns", or Castles. They are cities the player generates. The player can modify the city, add security, troop patrols, etc. Each hometown has a Treasure, or Objective, that must be protected.
Other players can download over the web Castles players have made, and try to get to that players Objective, through his security.
Online Castles should have a rating option, and also store any attempts made on them, like how long it took, how many lives it took, etc.
My 2 Cents.
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The Daemons
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- Location: Gilbert, AZ
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Well, from what I remember reading, I believe Chris had said at one point something to effect of Subversion is going to be quite a large and ambitious project.
I love the whole sandbox concept, so I'm thinking, what if Subversion could be played in different genre styles, such as FPS, RTS, RPG, Sims or Sim City, Racing, third person action (like Splinter Cell or Max Payne), or maybe even some element of side-scroller, and of course, there could be a complete sandbox mode that allows the player to swap between any of these styles and perspectives on the fly whilst editing the city.
Maybe these could act as alternate game modes to whatever the main play style is.
I love the whole sandbox concept, so I'm thinking, what if Subversion could be played in different genre styles, such as FPS, RTS, RPG, Sims or Sim City, Racing, third person action (like Splinter Cell or Max Payne), or maybe even some element of side-scroller, and of course, there could be a complete sandbox mode that allows the player to swap between any of these styles and perspectives on the fly whilst editing the city.
Maybe these could act as alternate game modes to whatever the main play style is.
The Daemons wrote:what if Subversion could be played in different genre styles, such as FPS, RTS, RPG, Sims or Sim City, Racing, third person action (like Splinter Cell or Max Payne), or maybe even some element of side-scroller, and of course, there could be a complete sandbox mode that allows the player to swap between any of these styles and perspectives on the fly whilst editing the city.
Introversion FPS? 0_0
What I know about Subversion: It can generate cities on an buildings level. It has a physics model and a scripting language to build some kind of machines.
A must have: Further simulation/generation of what makes a city a city. People, traffic, energy supply... not every aspect has to be simulated but unless this has a post-apocalyptic theme, life needs to be present.
The scripting language seems to be good for some kind of puzzle-solving content.
With the possibility of generating 1000s of cities, a persistent gameworld seems to be a waste.
I imagine a game with the goal of gaining control of the city, by gaining control of different aspects of the city. Some kind of Syndicate/Political war. (like a mix of the games: Syndicate / Republic: The Revolution)
Blow up the central subway station to make people using more cabs. Turn the traffic lights reds, so firefighters cant safe the headquarter of the Newspaper, thats owned by the other party, and is always manipulating the masses vs you. and so on.
Multiplayer would be great with the aim of 1 hour game time, or a story driven Singleplayer, or a singleplayer with not to obvious cheating CPU.
A must have: Further simulation/generation of what makes a city a city. People, traffic, energy supply... not every aspect has to be simulated but unless this has a post-apocalyptic theme, life needs to be present.
The scripting language seems to be good for some kind of puzzle-solving content.
With the possibility of generating 1000s of cities, a persistent gameworld seems to be a waste.
I imagine a game with the goal of gaining control of the city, by gaining control of different aspects of the city. Some kind of Syndicate/Political war. (like a mix of the games: Syndicate / Republic: The Revolution)
Blow up the central subway station to make people using more cabs. Turn the traffic lights reds, so firefighters cant safe the headquarter of the Newspaper, thats owned by the other party, and is always manipulating the masses vs you. and so on.
Multiplayer would be great with the aim of 1 hour game time, or a story driven Singleplayer, or a singleplayer with not to obvious cheating CPU.
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Teddy Coalition
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Picture This...
To sum up my idea is like massive CLAN WARS, for control of the city. MMO Style.
Players make clans and start to occupy areas. Completing quests, leveling up, building fortifications, buying (npc) muscle.
During that time, the clans main goal is to be crowned Kings of Subversion. Then, a new city is created, and it all starts all over again, however players keep their level, skills & inventory, but not the territory. And the winning clan getting a bonus. (Wheather in Wealth, Influence, or Inventory. There can be several bonus categories that the player chooses.) JUST BARE WITH ME
First time player, starting at lvl 1, starts out with a single unit, with a car, and some cash. You use him this unit as your main PC. As you complete quests, and level up, you get skills to take over shops. The game can advance to the point, where you can be the head of a corporation. With hundreds of minions, trade routes (which he must protect.) Guards (that are AI NPC UNITS That you can set to diffrent options.) Where you direct "hits" creatihng quests for the little guys. Offering them reward, for completion. Players go online, they can chat with clan members (or create their own clan, at say, lvl 5. lvl 7 you can create clan logo.) see what quests are available, team up, and have fun. Each with his own minions, vehicles. If you're higher up, and have leadership, and npc recruiting skills, you can have your pc sit back in an office, and just control your Player Controlled NPC's.
Interface could be like Command & Counquer. (The way you control your troops, that is. Or even similar to multiwinia.) You can zoom in to view right on streets or inside buildings, when in a battle. Or zoom out and survey the whole city. Ofcourse I was thinking of a surveilence system (like radar, fog of war) But security cameras where you can install.
One Activity is building and installing cameras, (Radar) all around town, so you can see whats going on & expanding your territory view. Once components are available, and the production of a camera is done, you send a team of hired (npc's) or even setup a quest for low level players. They would have to travel to the location, install the camera. They might come under attack, and if they succees, the camera must be protected. Thats when building & setting up sentry guns comes in. But if you dont have the neccesary skill levels, or too hard to find the parts, then Buy, or Rent (npc) Guards.
Satelite uplinks can be placed ontop of roof buildings to provide communications, or send signals to Electronic billboards, and send images of "Clan Recruitments."
Or send Universal Marketplace offers. (For example, your skill in CRAFT WEAPON is 23, and You just got the parts, and put togather a gatling gun. Advertise much!?)
There could be neutral parts of city, where any combat would be difficult. There would be police sentries protecting it, and Combat mode off for each player (that a hacker could have it overridden.) Anyways, these neutral zones would be the place for all clan marketplaces, diplomacy centers, where clans could trade properties and districts. Aswell as Parkinglots, for low level players who have no properties, and here they can park their vehicles for the night, hehe.
There are endless possibilities to act how they choose. They can be bounty hunters, Own Security Companies (that sell npc guards to Clans) Gunsmiths (collecting parts & building guns, then selling to local gangs and Clans.) Investors, Loan Sharks, Hackers 4 Hire, and the list goes on!
Hackers can jack into computers and try to access security cameras, AI sentry guns, unlock doors, Turn alarms off. This is a completely another level of playing if someone chooses to be a hacker.
Immagine hundreds of skill sets, built into several interconnecting skill trees. A player can expand into diffrent trees and be a jack of all trades or master of one.
Perks can be learned, for bunuses. Obviously This might be too big of an Idea, that Subverion was intended for, but not everything here is usable. I'm just throwing this concept out there.
I guess the game is similar to Mafia games, such as Godfather, or Shadowrun, but on a diffrent scale.
Anyways hat's just the tip of the icebergof what I have in mind when I think of Subversion, I guess those production Vids from the Blog realy inspired me.
To sum up my idea is like massive CLAN WARS, for control of the city. MMO Style.
Players make clans and start to occupy areas. Completing quests, leveling up, building fortifications, buying (npc) muscle.
During that time, the clans main goal is to be crowned Kings of Subversion. Then, a new city is created, and it all starts all over again, however players keep their level, skills & inventory, but not the territory. And the winning clan getting a bonus. (Wheather in Wealth, Influence, or Inventory. There can be several bonus categories that the player chooses.) JUST BARE WITH ME
First time player, starting at lvl 1, starts out with a single unit, with a car, and some cash. You use him this unit as your main PC. As you complete quests, and level up, you get skills to take over shops. The game can advance to the point, where you can be the head of a corporation. With hundreds of minions, trade routes (which he must protect.) Guards (that are AI NPC UNITS That you can set to diffrent options.) Where you direct "hits" creatihng quests for the little guys. Offering them reward, for completion. Players go online, they can chat with clan members (or create their own clan, at say, lvl 5. lvl 7 you can create clan logo.) see what quests are available, team up, and have fun. Each with his own minions, vehicles. If you're higher up, and have leadership, and npc recruiting skills, you can have your pc sit back in an office, and just control your Player Controlled NPC's.
Interface could be like Command & Counquer. (The way you control your troops, that is. Or even similar to multiwinia.) You can zoom in to view right on streets or inside buildings, when in a battle. Or zoom out and survey the whole city. Ofcourse I was thinking of a surveilence system (like radar, fog of war) But security cameras where you can install.
One Activity is building and installing cameras, (Radar) all around town, so you can see whats going on & expanding your territory view. Once components are available, and the production of a camera is done, you send a team of hired (npc's) or even setup a quest for low level players. They would have to travel to the location, install the camera. They might come under attack, and if they succees, the camera must be protected. Thats when building & setting up sentry guns comes in. But if you dont have the neccesary skill levels, or too hard to find the parts, then Buy, or Rent (npc) Guards.
Satelite uplinks can be placed ontop of roof buildings to provide communications, or send signals to Electronic billboards, and send images of "Clan Recruitments."
Or send Universal Marketplace offers. (For example, your skill in CRAFT WEAPON is 23, and You just got the parts, and put togather a gatling gun. Advertise much!?)
There could be neutral parts of city, where any combat would be difficult. There would be police sentries protecting it, and Combat mode off for each player (that a hacker could have it overridden.) Anyways, these neutral zones would be the place for all clan marketplaces, diplomacy centers, where clans could trade properties and districts. Aswell as Parkinglots, for low level players who have no properties, and here they can park their vehicles for the night, hehe.
There are endless possibilities to act how they choose. They can be bounty hunters, Own Security Companies (that sell npc guards to Clans) Gunsmiths (collecting parts & building guns, then selling to local gangs and Clans.) Investors, Loan Sharks, Hackers 4 Hire, and the list goes on!
Hackers can jack into computers and try to access security cameras, AI sentry guns, unlock doors, Turn alarms off. This is a completely another level of playing if someone chooses to be a hacker.
Immagine hundreds of skill sets, built into several interconnecting skill trees. A player can expand into diffrent trees and be a jack of all trades or master of one.
Perks can be learned, for bunuses. Obviously This might be too big of an Idea, that Subverion was intended for, but not everything here is usable. I'm just throwing this concept out there.
I guess the game is similar to Mafia games, such as Godfather, or Shadowrun, but on a diffrent scale.
Anyways hat's just the tip of the icebergof what I have in mind when I think of Subversion, I guess those production Vids from the Blog realy inspired me.
Join the Coalition or perish at it's feet!
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Teddy Coalition
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Jordy... wrote:Sounds bit like GTA to me, I think one important issue is that players should be enabled to create there own MMO, meaning that IV doesn't have to make all kinds of quests and shops or whatever, but that it is self regulated.
Well yeah, Most are player generated. They could post tasks needed to get done, danger level, and reward, players can sift through available quests and pick the one he likes.
There could be just a few quest needed to be done by IV, most would be tutorial quests for new players, and a few of the major ones that affect the whole city.
So good point Jordy. However I disagree with the GTA similarities. GTA has some rpg elements, but not realy, and in GTA you control one guy, where here you can control small armies, gangs, bodyguards, traders, Sentry guns, or a single henchmen. Also, most of the action would be from a birds eye perspective, to distant 3rd person, and even maybe first person perspective, however that's not advised. But who am I to advise anything. Just throwing ideas out there.
Join the Coalition or perish at it's feet!
Jordy, I have to say, you were on the right track my friend. But here I am now, about to deliver the most epic idea for Introversion's game codenamed: Subversion. Im going into that horrible state I get into when my brain starts to go into overdrive. Where my imagination is at its top speed, clocking massive amounts of images, notions, and ideas into my head. Im starting to shake; my mind is so pissed at my body for not being able to type so fast, not being able to express all these notions at once. My spine tingling with excitment.
This is known as a bad thing for me, because ever since I was a young child, I would pass out if I think for too long. Im not kidding. I lose sense of the reality surrounding me, and awake with my friends/family around my body.
Hoh boy. Im going to be passing out periodically for quite a while. My neck muscles are stiff. If this isnt the idea introversion wants, i dunno what else they could possibly do with such awesome generating technology.
I will tell you, I have read through only half of Chris's blogs. Im afraid if I read too much, I might pass out in front of my computer.
However, an idea has already formulated in my head.
If you havent seen the anime: "Deathnote", you probably wouldnt get as excited as me. L, an investigator, is tasked to discover why a chain of murders have all been caused by a heart-attack. These murders are caused by Kira, who is in possesion of the deathnote, a book that can kill anyone when their name is written in it. L is in Japan, trying to find this killer in this huge enviroment. You should see the crazy situations kira and L get into, controlling eachothers movements in the game of chess that is murder. Kira is constantly killing criminals, and L is trying to stop him.
Not that this should be implemented exactly, but what i liked and started to think about was this: Situations.
Situations are a universal concept, involving anything and everything remotley connnected to them at hand.
They involve people interacting with eachother.
What I am suggesting to Introversion, is that the player is in control of a mastermind.
Oceans eleven is another reference I would like to address.
This post is a little choppy in syntax, yes, but bare with me; my thoughts are going 100 miles per hour.
Situations can invlove money, important people, transportation, time, place, events, and happenings.
The mastermind is controlling all of this.
I dont want this to sound like Jordy's post, but yes, it does involve all your ideas. Thank you Jordy.
Im implying that if Introversion can pull off a "situation generator" where the protagonist mastermind has to deal with all of them....
the first, and ever, story generator.
Then, if all this is possible, im thinking multiplayer.
Multiplayer can revolve around a pile of cash in the hands of some important bigshot.
Two (or three possibly) try to obtain such an amount of cash by accomblishing situations.
Im starting to think that these situations arent even needed. If the mastermind needs something, he goes somewhere. If he needs somebody, he calls somebody.
Then im thinking that these situations can be tampered on, and modified by your opponents. This can be accomblished by assuming the opponents actions, then taking some action to deprive them of their intentions before they can obtain it.
I can go on and on, but its 12:00 am where im at.
I started typing this at, eh, 11:30.
I dont think ill be able to go to sleep at night.
something at the back of my mind is telling me.....
this is gold.
Edit:
and this is all happening underneath the society. The people of the society are just tools; mereley pawns of the goal you wish to accomblish.
So it is a game of tactical thinking, trying to hide from the authorities by not being to obvious in your intentions.
after all this, I hope you realize their is no need of an A.I. opponent. no opposing forces. just society's functions vs. a mastermind.
This is known as a bad thing for me, because ever since I was a young child, I would pass out if I think for too long. Im not kidding. I lose sense of the reality surrounding me, and awake with my friends/family around my body.
Hoh boy. Im going to be passing out periodically for quite a while. My neck muscles are stiff. If this isnt the idea introversion wants, i dunno what else they could possibly do with such awesome generating technology.
I will tell you, I have read through only half of Chris's blogs. Im afraid if I read too much, I might pass out in front of my computer.
However, an idea has already formulated in my head.
If you havent seen the anime: "Deathnote", you probably wouldnt get as excited as me. L, an investigator, is tasked to discover why a chain of murders have all been caused by a heart-attack. These murders are caused by Kira, who is in possesion of the deathnote, a book that can kill anyone when their name is written in it. L is in Japan, trying to find this killer in this huge enviroment. You should see the crazy situations kira and L get into, controlling eachothers movements in the game of chess that is murder. Kira is constantly killing criminals, and L is trying to stop him.
Not that this should be implemented exactly, but what i liked and started to think about was this: Situations.
Situations are a universal concept, involving anything and everything remotley connnected to them at hand.
They involve people interacting with eachother.
What I am suggesting to Introversion, is that the player is in control of a mastermind.
Oceans eleven is another reference I would like to address.
This post is a little choppy in syntax, yes, but bare with me; my thoughts are going 100 miles per hour.
Situations can invlove money, important people, transportation, time, place, events, and happenings.
The mastermind is controlling all of this.
I dont want this to sound like Jordy's post, but yes, it does involve all your ideas. Thank you Jordy.
Im implying that if Introversion can pull off a "situation generator" where the protagonist mastermind has to deal with all of them....
the first, and ever, story generator.
Then, if all this is possible, im thinking multiplayer.
Multiplayer can revolve around a pile of cash in the hands of some important bigshot.
Two (or three possibly) try to obtain such an amount of cash by accomblishing situations.
Im starting to think that these situations arent even needed. If the mastermind needs something, he goes somewhere. If he needs somebody, he calls somebody.
Then im thinking that these situations can be tampered on, and modified by your opponents. This can be accomblished by assuming the opponents actions, then taking some action to deprive them of their intentions before they can obtain it.
I can go on and on, but its 12:00 am where im at.
I started typing this at, eh, 11:30.
I dont think ill be able to go to sleep at night.
something at the back of my mind is telling me.....
this is gold.
Edit:
and this is all happening underneath the society. The people of the society are just tools; mereley pawns of the goal you wish to accomblish.
So it is a game of tactical thinking, trying to hide from the authorities by not being to obvious in your intentions.
after all this, I hope you realize their is no need of an A.I. opponent. no opposing forces. just society's functions vs. a mastermind.
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