Subversion Development - Any Suggestions Etc...

It's all in your head

Moderators: bert_the_turtle, DTNC Vicious, jelco

Nixitur
level1
level1
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:10 pm
Contact:

Postby Nixitur » Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:38 am

Looking through some of the suggestions (especially the one about agents ratting you out), I remembered Liberal Crime Squad.

And now I know what this game should have: An option to not have you hire all the agents, but to have a system of subordinates. Any of your subordinates should be able to hire agents. So, if one of your agents get caught, they can only tell on their direct higher-up. Ideally, the higher subordinates are the must trustworthy, so if they get arrested because one of their subordinates betrayed them, they won't betray you.
And as a direct consequence of that, you should be able to free your agents from pre-trial custody or even prison.

Thinking about it, there should generally be missions to free a certain person. It would definitely open up new and more complex strategies since you need to guard a specific person the entire way out.
xemonis
level0
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:24 pm

Cell Shadowing

Postby xemonis » Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:38 pm

I was playing Mirrors Edge the other day and if this game was filled in like it that might be a good look.
xemonis
level0
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:24 pm

Postby xemonis » Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:49 pm

Just finding out about this game today makes it look really good, I'm more entrusted in spec of it, when its coming out, beta testing, Players, Systems coming out, so forth what not.

From looking at the videos and seeing a couple of the things listed, here are a couple of thoughts.

I would love to see a lot of ops across the city your creating, Such as three teams planting bombs around the city at different points at the same time, with grand escapes and chases around the city after failing or success. Something like the movie Heat, mixed with the car chase from Romin. It would be crazy fun if you have 10-12 per team bad guys and good guys. Maybe have the Bad guys all held up in a build with cops coming in from every place possible.

The host creates the city every person that does not join the game there is an A.I. Mix up the bots make some do smart things camp objectives, snipe, have some that rush head on, some that just wonder around. Have a system that you can request help from Bots and they might assist, allow the player to order them around switch weapons.

Though if the game is not real time and works like Xcom that could be grand too.
praguepride
level1
level1
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 11:31 pm

Postby praguepride » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:54 pm

I think I would disagree and would rather focus on one operation at a time. I'd rather the game focused you on executing one mission really well then trying to juggle multiple teams across multiple areas.

If you overwhelm the user, they tend to just stop caring. Unless you're expecting to break into the "elite RTS" game market where multi-tasking is a necessity, I'd rather the challenge and immersion come from a single mission.

The more diffuse you get, the less impact any of it means. Suddenly failing a mission doesn't matter because you've got 6 going at once. It could dive down into just being a shot gun method where you just throw agents at buildings, fast forward, don't care, and wait for the results.
kurasuru
level0
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:01 pm

Postby kurasuru » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:13 pm

I won't lie I haven't read through every suggestion and post in this thread but I still want to weigh in a few suggestions and comments. The game from what I have seen from a few videos looks to have great potential and I am looking forward to the game very much. Now into the ideas for the game.

Recon and time- If you are going for an interconnected world as such where NPCs in say a Bank, Corporation, or Government buildings actually live within the world they should do other things other than just exist in the building the work in. So at 17:00 the bank tellers/managers leave go home eat dinner have families go for a run etc. Exploitation outside of the bank you could take the bank managers wife hostage and gain leverage over him. Recon for a target institution can take days or weeks, of course this could be sped up and made to be more of a briefing style like division of resources, AKA a 3 man team who needs to hit the bank, museum, government building etc only has 3 days before the target day and you can assign different tasks to each member to get done. Examples would include, Mapping a building, Tailing bank employees for vulnerabilities, bribing security guards, and the list can go on with more covert options like getting an agent hired as a security guard or bank manager(of course you would have to take out the current employee somehow)

Recon is probably the most important part of any well done heist. While planning is key something can always go wrong and require a deviation from the plan maybe a bit of brute force etc. The time aspect as well allows you to hit buildings with varying levels of security or staff present. If you know a vault or room you need access to will take some uninterrupted time trying to break in during business hours may not be the best idea. While there will be a tougher outer layer of defense while the building is locked up you get the extra time to do your work. There could even be complete scenarios that revolve around beating the physical security vs dealing with any guards or employees.

Levels of recognition- Just like real life if you walk into a bank without a mask and rob them. There will probably be some video footage plus witness descriptions these will make your life difficult and eventually the police usually can connect a face to a person, or at the very least circulate your picture to other banks making guards or employee's more suspicious of you possible even recognizing you and causing them to alert the police. The more covert you handle missions the less recognition you gain which would lead you to being able to use an agent more with less risk. The other options could be leave no witnesses if you want to go with a more direct approach and then wipe or destroy any video surveillance records the bank or institute may have. Masks and disguises could help prevent you from gaining any recognition but would increase your level of suspicion from guards or employees. If you walk in with a ski mask on its either really cold outside or your about to rob the place specially if you don't remove the mask upon entry.

Missions effect other parts of the city - Again if your working on an immerse world having different jobs effect different parts of the city makes sense. Done in real time this could add to dynamic missions that don't always revolve around stealing anything but maybe making it easier to steal from another building. From a game play standpoint to keep it simple in the start maybe you start with a 3 man crew including yourself the main character or mastermind if you will. Your first several missions of introduction and wealth and tool building would involve some simple heists which include the mastermind maybe a low key bank robbery to get some funds. Later in the game you can use your funds to higher more agents that work under your command allowing you to sub your agents out if some have a high level or recognition part of their job caused them to get seen (Like undercover cable guy or something to gain recon on a building). You could then have multilevel missions where one team breaks into the power plant and cuts the power to a building across town allowing your other team to break in more easily. Your missions could the have player inputted timers, like team one has 30 minutes to do their job before team two is set to begin. If team one fails and goes to jail team two may still be able to get their job done but may have a harder time of it or they could abort.

I don't suggest simultaneous missions though, there is some quality to not swapping back and forth between buildings and as such you can segment the game enough to be manageable.

While I am not a fan of adding competitive multiplayer to games to merely push out some multiplayer action. If a game is going to have competitive multiplayer it needs to be a focus not something done halfway. That said I belive subversion has the potential to be a very good cooperative multiplayer game. From what I watched in a gameplay demonstration, since other agents other than the current player active agent just stands there this would make the best place to insert other players. Allowing multiple players to divide tasks among each other would add a very dynamic layer to gameplay. I don't feel there would be any need to add extra stuff for both players to do at the same time, allowing one person to control an agent in the lobby to keep an eye on who is where and relay this information to the player actively cracking the vault would be invaluable. Players would be able to jump into any agent not currently player controlled at any time just like in single player, allowing one person to manage a lock down of the lobby so the other player doesn't have to split his attention from cracking a safe.

The other side of cooperative multiplayer is while playing single player it needs to not feel like a chore to manage your other agents, maybe involve a queuing system for commands or reactive commands. For example you could post up an agent in the lobby with a standing order of, "if the alarm gets tripped tranq the guard and prevent anyone from leaving, gather hostages." This way some unexpected events are not immediately turned into pause and damage control with everybody.

Those are some of my rough ideas, a few of them are inspired from Tom Clancy Rogue Spear games. In those I enjoyed planning a mission about as much as actually playing the mission. That game also allowed for some pretty good AI command queuing to streamline the missions. It was a personal goal of mine to plan and execute missions without ever jumping between my starting squad. Hopefully something like that can be possible with Subversion as well.
Gmr Leon
level0
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 10:40 pm

Postby Gmr Leon » Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:46 am

Praguepride wrote:I think I would disagree and would rather focus on one operation at a time. I'd rather the game focused you on executing one mission really well then trying to juggle multiple teams across multiple areas.

If you overwhelm the user, they tend to just stop caring. Unless you're expecting to break into the "elite RTS" game market where multi-tasking is a necessity, I'd rather the challenge and immersion come from a single mission.

The more diffuse you get, the less impact any of it means. Suddenly failing a mission doesn't matter because you've got 6 going at once. It could dive down into just being a shot gun method where you just throw agents at buildings, fast forward, don't care, and wait for the results.


That's true. It would be better to have a buildup to that sort of situation. The more jobs successfully completed, the more your coffers are filled, the larger a crime syndicate you could establish, and thus the more ops you could commission in the game. You'd basically start up as an elite criminal squad hired by some other crooks and you work your way up to their level and get to play as if you're them. However, instead of just letting the operations proceed passively, you can play through them yourself and set it up to go more smoothly. E.g. having men stationed outside of the building your men are robbing to alert you/set up delays for the police/etc.

But it all really depends on what Introversion has envisioned for this project. Biggest and most complex release to date? Or just another innovative, simple yet fun title that will remain appealing to their indie fans? I think they can accomplish a bit of both really. Darwinia gave them experience in more hands-on controls and active gameplay and Defcon gave them some RTS-style gameplay experience.

Both showed very impressive talent for taking complex gameplay and simplifying it without stripping away too much of its source material's appeal.
ameanberg
level0
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:13 am

Postby ameanberg » Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:48 pm

Don't allow people to easily retry the same mission. I am the type of person who will quick save and quick load to make sure I complete every mission perfectly and I don't want to be able to do that.
Clive At Five
level1
level1
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:38 pm

Postby Clive At Five » Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:41 pm

praguepride wrote:I think I would disagree and would rather focus on one operation at a time. I'd rather the game focused you on executing one mission really well then trying to juggle multiple teams across multiple areas.

If you overwhelm the user, they tend to just stop caring. Unless you're expecting to break into the "elite RTS" game market where multi-tasking is a necessity, I'd rather the challenge and immersion come from a single mission.

The more diffuse you get, the less impact any of it means. Suddenly failing a mission doesn't matter because you've got 6 going at once. It could dive down into just being a shot gun method where you just throw agents at buildings, fast forward, don't care, and wait for the results.


Well, in a way, Uplink was an RTS, and I could see this game being the same. You have several things to monitor at once, and complexity increases the more agents you have working on a single heist. I could envision some really contrived puzzles, requiring the multi-tasking of 8 agents or so agents... you can increase the complexity to "elite RTS" heights without increasing the number of concurrent missions.

-Clive
zhyl
level0
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:36 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Postby zhyl » Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:55 pm

Topic seems to be dormant, but anyway...

1. Integrate Subversion into Infinity to create a game that models from desks up to galaxies for no good reason!

2. Make subversion first person sneaker.

3. Make subversion into The Matrix.

4. Make subversion into an existentialist dream adventure where the main character has to decide what is real and what isn't. After he realises that he is slipping deeper into his own subconscious he finds his surroundings getting more and more surreal. He has to contront his fears, facing nightmarish labyrinths of offices, being chased by desperate bosses and angry shareholders. He predictably ends the game by facing the true enemy: HIMSELF.

5. Make subversion into a co-op game reminiscent of Left4Dead crossed with Deus Ex, where one player, the operator, guides a team of super elite warriors through missions. Basically, the matrix.

6. Make subversion into a metropolitan dungeon crawler where players can design and export buildings for other players to conquer.

7. Make subversion into LA noire but without any facial animation. All voices are done by Chris Delay. Can you tell whether the 16 year old girl is lying just from her voice?

8. Give the players jetpacks and let them fuck shit up.

9. More magnets.

10. Sell subversion as middleware that cures locked door syndrome in AAA games.

11. Inevitable zombie mod. Basically what they wanted to do with Left4Dead if you listen to the commentaries.

12. Give the players guns, the ability to summon vehicles, supernatural jumping, wall running and the ability to dodge bullets, plus kick-ass kung fu moves. They have to take on the evil computer like in such films as Tron or the Matrix.

13. Electric Boogaloo
LucidLunatic
level0
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:32 pm
Location: Roanoke, Va

Postby LucidLunatic » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:46 pm

I'm new and feeling a bit lethargic, so maybe I missed a post reiterating what I'm about to say.

I've always wanted to play a game based off movies like Oceons Eleven, where the whole point of the game is a heist. Buy equipment, create it, gather intelligence, perform recon, and create an elaborate plot. Execute the plot. Get money. Plan an even bigger heist. Rinse and repeat.

Actually wanted to make a game called "Heist" or "Underground" where you work in a team or alone stealing all sorts of valuables, information included, and selling it. Thats back before I realized games like that are *not* made by inexperienced solo programmers. :roll:
Pete0r
level0
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:33 pm

Postby Pete0r » Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:08 pm

Back in 1990, when Microprose still ruled the earth, there was a game that has a lot in common with Subversion.

Sid Meier's Covert Action

The game was based around the CIA career of Max Remington and his/her fight against terrorism on varying scales. A terrorist plot would be randomly generated and its principal actors spread across the world in a variety of cities. The player would then be charged with tracking down and arresting of killing the ringleaders of the plot.

When I first saw Subversion my first thoughts where "this could be a great Mission: Impossible game" but after hearing Chris speak about the lack of gameplay I thought you could transplant this great, yet overlooked, game into his engine.

The city generator could crank out enough locations so that the game felt realistically globetrotting, so a plot would be more likely to be international in nature rather than just contained within a small area.

The tactical engine would be used for all of the infiltration and intelligence gathering missions. Covert Action overcame the problem of a gung-ho player quite well. If the Bad Guys ever felt under threat from the CIA, either from bungled arrests or a gun fight in one of their buildings, they would either accelerate their plans or go into hiding, meaning the player would try to remain hidden for as long as possible, quietly arresting low level plot characters to get information on times/locations to help bring down the main men.


Has anyone that has played covert action think of other ways Subversion could borrow/be heavily influenced by it.
Zooka128
level0
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:50 pm
Location: UK

Storyline

Postby Zooka128 » Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:23 pm

I think that Subversion lacks a storyline and that with a more meaningful objective to the game it might feel a little better in terms of gameplay. I also think that as a good addition to the game, you could maybe add more NPCs and you make the patrols slower so that you need to sneak around more and make it more challenging. You could also make it so you start off with just a knife and do smaller heists so that you need to work your way up to get bigger guns; and with the guns, you could add a chance of hitting (depending on the weapon) and also give the enemies weapons as well so that if you're detected they pull their guns out and shoot at you but if you haven't alerted the guards yet (by messing with the lights, etc.) they take longer to pull out their weapons whereas if you've alerted them, they have their guns ready so it rewards you more for being stealthy and trying to hack your way round things rather than just going straight into action and making the game so easy that there's no point in really trying.
glenjohnson44
level0
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:32 am

Re: Subversion Development - Any Suggestions Etc...

Postby glenjohnson44 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:35 am

So, you play subversion and you pass a law that the population should be imlented with chips, then you launch big campaign with advertisements etc.

Return to “Subversion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests