Subversion Development - Any Suggestions Etc...

It's all in your head

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krskrft
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Postby krskrft » Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:57 am

harlequin wrote:You could also think of the possibility to "defend" your HQ. While you check out companies, banks etc and steal money or information which you can sell for money, your "shadowcompany" growths. But while you gather more and more resources and fame, also you become the target of attacks from the shadow (not only the police if you do something wrong). You could build you own security HQ, arrange guards etc.


I think this would be really cool. It would be neat if there was some kind of a meter for how much "visibility" your agency or HQ has at any given moment. Some of the HQ upgrades could be based on security, or alternately on lowing the profile of the building. Ultimately, if things got hairy, there would be an upgrade that would let you tear down your HQ, and then you could build up another one. I was thinking primarily about defending the HQ from police scrutiny, but this could also be extended to other agencies.

Perhaps "visibility" could have something to do with how much of a ruckus you make when you perform your missions. If you're doing a lot of shooting people and blowing stuff up, authorities and other agencies are more likely to be able to pin it on you, specifically. Whereas, if you do things cleanly and stealthily, your agency would be harder to identify. Of course, you may actually want to make a ruckus in order to let people know that you're in the business, or in order to boost your agency's cash by doing jobs in a quick and dirty manner. But the consequence of this would be heightened visibility, and perhaps having to take countermeasures against that at some point.
tel niasa
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Postby tel niasa » Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:53 am

uplink lan hacking!
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quickdan
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Postby quickdan » Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:29 am

tel niasa wrote:uplink lan hacking!


lol, I agree with you
If there were only two games to play in the world, I would choose a text editor and a good C compiler.
tel niasa
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Postby tel niasa » Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:09 am

quickdan wrote:
tel niasa wrote:uplink lan hacking!


lol, I agree with you

I think subversion should contain elements of all of the previous introversion games.
It'll be the best introversion game ever!
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red rouge
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Postby red rouge » Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:44 pm

i think it would be pretty neat if in the story line there was another co-orparation with its own team of infiltrators that you crossed paths with throughout the game. so say your going to break in to a bank but you leave it to late and this second 'shadow' team have already raided the vault so when you get there you get blamed cause your caught at the scene. so this shadow team would pop up and you could help them or try to compete with them while trying to find out info about there HQ and tech. i think this would lead to and epic final level were you infiltrate there HQ and find there boss or choose to side with them and infiltrate the HQ of your contractors, kindof like the choice faith and revelation in uplink.
another idea ive ogt floating around is the option to pick a sniper in your team. you would place your sniper at a vantage piont on an opisite building and using hotkeys you could switch to him (say ctrl s or summin) and enter a first person sniper view to scout out rooms through windows and take out priority targets. i think snipings a bit to abitious though and probably a bit hard to impliment if there june demo video is anything to go by.
anyway thanks for readin
redrouge
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Counterinsurgency

Postby abaddontuned » Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:20 pm

Hi Chris, Hi everybody
did you read this book?

"Counterinsurgency Warfare: Theory and Practice"

the author
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Galula

there are more ideas for subversion warfare

bye
Legion303
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Postby Legion303 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:24 am

Some random thoughts:

- "Story vs. arcade": STORY! Darwinia is a fantastic game on sheer gameplay alone, but the storyline really elevates it into something special.

- Complexity sliders for those of us with older systems would be nice, if this is even possible on a procedurally generated city (though Farbrausch's procedural demos run fine on my laptop, so maybe this won't be that big an issue).

- I would love to see more hardcore hacking challenges with bigger risks and bigger payoffs than the easier routes. Read old issues of Phrack. Connecting to a mainframe, seeing the banner, and having to research that OS's security flaws (in an in-game database so players wouldn't have to kill the immersion by tabbing over to google) would be great fun.

-steve
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jelco
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Postby jelco » Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:43 pm

Legion303 wrote:"Story vs. arcade": STORY! Darwinia is a fantastic game on sheer gameplay alone, but the storyline really elevates it into something special.

I'm intrigued as to why people keep saying that. To me the story really didn't matter and could just as well have been left out - the setting however, was awesome. I grew fond of my Darwinians not because they were under attack by spam, but because it all looked so cute and fun when I did a fly-over of a map during a mission. When you think about it, it's basically the same appeal as SimCity/The Sims and derivatives have, but spun a little different. Plus, let's be honest, what actually was the story, beyond the spam e-mails? The travelling to different levels with different missions, the battling with the virus, the backstory of how Darwinia was created - to me that's all part of the setting, which is still very charming to me.

In the same way I think Subversion really doesn't need an elaborate storyline (although the lack of one in general might be a little weird). I'd say the Uplink formula worked fine, and is something Subversion could very well use. You start at the bottom, work yourself up in the world of heists, scout for your own missions but occasionally take on missions from 'employers' (e.g. syndicates and the like) with all the missions gradually becoming more complicated as you go along. An overarching story could very well be used, kicking in after you've gotten used to the game a little.

Another formula may be smaller story arcs that come with the more complicated missions. Let's say you scout for your own missions on your own, just for profit. These are stand-alone missions and mostly bring personal gain. Imagine that on top of that you have employers that occasionally approach you with a job. What if each job comes with multiple missions, and a story arc? Consider a job to take down a rival organisation: this means going after their assets in different ways. You can easily imagine them moving around some of their stuff after they start seeing a pattern, stealing some of your material in revenge, or when syndicates are concerned, you could even bring in an almost political factor with manhunts including jail time/murder of some top figures. Playing out a true gang war this way could be quite exciting, and the additional plus is that you can easily have overlapping stories if you take on multiple jobs at a time. You might even go as far as having conflicting missions that will have you pick the lesser of two evils.

Legion303 wrote:Complexity sliders for those of us with older systems would be nice, if this is even possible on a procedurally generated city (though Farbrausch's procedural demos run fine on my laptop, so maybe this won't be that big an issue).

As you say, procedural generation isn't an extremely intensive operation (if the algorithms are written properly) so the need is probably not extremely high. In addition, it is almost completely preparatory work, so all the calculations are done before a mission and after that it's smooth sailing.

Legion303 wrote:I would love to see more hardcore hacking challenges with bigger risks and bigger payoffs than the easier routes. Read old issues of Phrack. Connecting to a mainframe, seeing the banner, and having to research that OS's security flaws (in an in-game database so players wouldn't have to kill the immersion by tabbing over to google) would be great fun.

Definitely a good plan. Continuing the job-consisting-of-multiple-mission formula, you could seriously crank up the difficulty if each of your missions involves similar steps.

Jelco
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Postby matty406 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:28 pm

xander wrote:Instead, it would be nifty to see IV really focus on the sandbox aspect of the game. Rather than having synchronous multiplayer game, it might be interesting to have an asynchronous kind of game, perhaps in the model of Spore, where content creation is relatively easy, and content can be shared from one player to another to build a larger, more believable world.

This sounds interesting. Maybe if a player's game creates a really cool city or particular building, they can choose to upload it to a database?
The same can be applied if there is a map editor included.
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Postby Shea » Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:59 am

Hullo, another long time lurker.

What I would love to see would be a few puzzle elements, like
buildings rigged with a lot of electronics where explosives or the like
might not quite cut it (dunno, like above a natural methane vent or something),
but having to use the system against itself, example rewiring the system so computers
with knowledge of a password hash are re-networked into other computers that need it,
you can't get the password but you still use it kinda thing.

This obviousally might be a level too deep for a suggestion, and the electronic devices
would need even more interior structers to fool with, but damn could I spend hours
messing with it! Of course, I wont really make a lick of difference as I'll be buying
anyway, but a penny for my thoughts.
iestyn
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At the risk of further delaying Subversion...

Postby iestyn » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:12 am

...I just had to share these:

http://www.subblue.com/blog/2011/1/16/surface_detail
http://art.depotvisuals.de/

I <3 procedural geometry.

iestyn
markmsmith
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Keep In Circuit Hacking

Postby markmsmith » Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:55 am

Long time lurker, I've loved all your games.

I just wanted to say that I really loved the idea of actually manipulating circuits by cutting wires etc to defuse bombs, crack locks & so on in the world. It's something that's truly a unique selling point for the game and gives it an edge over similarly themed games like Syndicate and Frozen Synapse. Please don't bow to any pressure that may exist to take it out in order to 'streamline' the game - it's that depth that totally makes it a must-buy for me and defines Introversion games.

In terms of player immersion, I think it's very important for there to be an engaging plot or back-story coupled to the world to draw the player in, so that I actually have a reason to care and want to complete the missions, rather than them just being a collection of little puzzles to be solved and then forgotten. I think the procedural element is really great for giving lots of detail and adding replayability (the Elite games were the king of this for me), but you have to have something to make people think about that world when they're not playing and look forward to returning.

Lastly, I liked the idea that's been mentioned elsewhere about needing to have a plan B when playing a level - maybe have randomly triggered events that bring a big twist to the situation and force you to rethink things. One example was another team trying to rob the same bank, others could be the escape van being identified as stolen / towed away for illegal parking or there being a powercut :)

It's awesome to have a development team that actually wants ideas from the community and looks for opportunities to incorporate their feedback. Thanks for listening.
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Postby ryacko » Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:17 am

'Nother lurker.

I'd totally like a sandbox mode where I could muck up a system all I want without being caught.
Snall
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Postby Snall » Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:23 pm

Id like to say I hate minigames..so ffs if they're done please make them skipapable to use character's skill instead.
Jum
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...another idea.

Postby Jum » Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:24 am

What was great about Uplink was that it made the real-life player feel connected to the fake game world. It plays on the idea that your really doing what your doing in the game, if that makes sense. So maybe in SubVersion it could be the same idea like this:

You play as you. At your computer. And the team members of your group are the agents who do the dirty work. You act as the shadowy figure in the movies giving the orders. You find agents and hire them. Then on your computer you monitor their actions and give orders. In between missions you communicate via email to the members concerning supplies/salary negotiations. This would play very much in the Uplink game style. You would not be doing any hacking like the Uplink game. But you are a character in the game and the agents you hire have their own personalities that interact with yours.

As far as the story goes, I don't know yet. But it would be neat to play the game like a business tycoon/ espionage game. Maybe some agents in your company get arrested and potentially rat you out and you have to move your HQ. If you draw too much attention to your self in a city, they try to find you. But I'm sure that what ever is the case, SubVersion will be great.

I saw a video on the dynamic music. I was impressed.

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