Subversion Development - Any Suggestions Etc...

It's all in your head

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Montyphy
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Postby Montyphy » Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:39 pm

Feud wrote:
Montyphy wrote:
DinoSteve wrote:
Montyphy wrote:
Feud wrote:
Montyphy wrote:
Feud wrote:One aspect that could be a lot of fun, given what direction the game seems to be headed in, is an ability to reprogram various things.

For example, say there is a troublesome guard patrol that needs to be delayed while you hack/slash/steal something: you could reprogram one of the keypads on a door along their patrol, effectively locking them out of an area and delaying them while they try to fix what's going on. Or, if there are physical alarms, the ability to hack the security system and isolate the opposition by sealing areas, triggering fire alarms, setting off false emergency exits, etc.

Or the ability to send them a memo saying their patrol route is to be changed :P


Or jam the printer just as they're trying to print thier TPS Reports...


Or kidnap the guards' families so as to blackmail the guards to get them to do the job for you.


Or turn up with your guys dressed as guards and get them to convince the real guards that they are guarding the wrong building due to a mix up at the office.


Or just kill the guards.

Just send them all texts telling them they have been downsized, watch them go on disgruntled shooting sprees and then wait for the police to take them away. Voila, building is clear!


Or get hired by the security firm and try to get placed at the building you wish to infiltrate.
Last edited by Montyphy on Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Feud
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Postby Feud » Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:41 pm

Job applications? Man, if that's the game I'm a shoe in for the beta test.
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DinoSteve
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Postby DinoSteve » Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:35 pm

Montyphy wrote:
Feud wrote:
Montyphy wrote:
DinoSteve wrote:
Montyphy wrote:
Feud wrote:
Montyphy wrote:
Feud wrote:One aspect that could be a lot of fun, given what direction the game seems to be headed in, is an ability to reprogram various things.

For example, say there is a troublesome guard patrol that needs to be delayed while you hack/slash/steal something: you could reprogram one of the keypads on a door along their patrol, effectively locking them out of an area and delaying them while they try to fix what's going on. Or, if there are physical alarms, the ability to hack the security system and isolate the opposition by sealing areas, triggering fire alarms, setting off false emergency exits, etc.

Or the ability to send them a memo saying their patrol route is to be changed :P


Or jam the printer just as they're trying to print thier TPS Reports...


Or kidnap the guards' families so as to blackmail the guards to get them to do the job for you.


Or turn up with your guys dressed as guards and get them to convince the real guards that they are guarding the wrong building due to a mix up at the office.


Or just kill the guards.

Just send them all texts telling them they have been downsized, watch them go on disgruntled shooting sprees and then wait for the police to take them away. Voila, building is clear!


Or get hired by the security firm and try to get placed at the building you wish to infiltrate.


Or bribe the guard to look the other way. (waves to other thread :P)
The above post is not intended as an attack on you. It's not about making you look stupid for not searching. It merely states the facts. Please don't be offended.
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Postby Phelanpt » Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:14 am

DinoSteve wrote:
Montyphy wrote:
Feud wrote:
Montyphy wrote:
DinoSteve wrote:
Montyphy wrote:
Feud wrote:
Montyphy wrote:
Feud wrote:One aspect that could be a lot of fun, given what direction the game seems to be headed in, is an ability to reprogram various things.

For example, say there is a troublesome guard patrol that needs to be delayed while you hack/slash/steal something: you could reprogram one of the keypads on a door along their patrol, effectively locking them out of an area and delaying them while they try to fix what's going on. Or, if there are physical alarms, the ability to hack the security system and isolate the opposition by sealing areas, triggering fire alarms, setting off false emergency exits, etc.

Or the ability to send them a memo saying their patrol route is to be changed :P


Or jam the printer just as they're trying to print thier TPS Reports...


Or kidnap the guards' families so as to blackmail the guards to get them to do the job for you.


Or turn up with your guys dressed as guards and get them to convince the real guards that they are guarding the wrong building due to a mix up at the office.


Or just kill the guards.

Just send them all texts telling them they have been downsized, watch them go on disgruntled shooting sprees and then wait for the police to take them away. Voila, building is clear!


Or get hired by the security firm and try to get placed at the building you wish to infiltrate.


Or bribe the guard to look the other way. (waves to other thread :P)


Or hire people to build a pyramid right next to the building and rope slide from one to the other.
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Montyphy
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Postby Montyphy » Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:27 am

Phelanpt wrote:
DinoSteve wrote:
Montyphy wrote:
Feud wrote:
Montyphy wrote:
DinoSteve wrote:
Montyphy wrote:
Feud wrote:
Montyphy wrote:
Feud wrote:One aspect that could be a lot of fun, given what direction the game seems to be headed in, is an ability to reprogram various things.

For example, say there is a troublesome guard patrol that needs to be delayed while you hack/slash/steal something: you could reprogram one of the keypads on a door along their patrol, effectively locking them out of an area and delaying them while they try to fix what's going on. Or, if there are physical alarms, the ability to hack the security system and isolate the opposition by sealing areas, triggering fire alarms, setting off false emergency exits, etc.

Or the ability to send them a memo saying their patrol route is to be changed :P


Or jam the printer just as they're trying to print thier TPS Reports...


Or kidnap the guards' families so as to blackmail the guards to get them to do the job for you.


Or turn up with your guys dressed as guards and get them to convince the real guards that they are guarding the wrong building due to a mix up at the office.


Or just kill the guards.

Just send them all texts telling them they have been downsized, watch them go on disgruntled shooting sprees and then wait for the police to take them away. Voila, building is clear!


Or get hired by the security firm and try to get placed at the building you wish to infiltrate.


Or bribe the guard to look the other way. (waves to other thread :P)


Or hire people to build a pyramid right next to the building and rope slide from one to the other.


Or bribe an employee to send a copy of the data.
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Postby Feud » Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:58 am

Or use the money that would have been spent stealing the data to instead license it.
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Postby NinjaN » Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:24 pm

Since we now know what Subversion is about, I've got some ideas myself:

  • Your actions should have some kind of influence on the later game. Rob the same company over and over? Their security increases and eventually they'll start hunting you! Do all missions for one partner? He gives you access to high-level missions and gear!
  • It'd be great if the persons in the game world had some kind of personality. Rob this guy, even just 1$ and he'll come after you with everything he got. Rob this guy's partners and he will no longer give you missions. Rob that guy's competitors and he'll give you missions as well. I think some system like this was in GTA2... "And remember; Respect is EVERYTHING!"
  • Multiplayer, in the form of cooperation. Robbing a bank alone? Great. Robbing a bigger bank with a gang of four friends? Priceless!
  • Mission Editor, the ability to play other people's missions. Player A could design some mission with a given budget ("I got 3000$ to protect my safe in my office, I spend it on 3 surveillance cameras, automatic doors with key locks and some guards"), Player B then tries to rob the place. Not exactly sure what the reward could be, other than having robbed Player A's safe...
  • Custom electronics! In some of the blog entries IV spoke about the possibility to design your own electronics to do things in the game world, using LUA I think. Please keep this in, perhaps even make a market Place for these!
  • The ability to work for both sides! Just not only letting the player rob places, but also letting them design offices to NOT being robbed!
  • Don't let missions end if everyone is out of the robbed building. Everyone knows after a heist, there's a race to your hideout. It's best with explosions... ;-D
  • Beta Access for everyone on the forum! ..kk jk ;-P


My ideas so far! I'm quite curious what IV is gonna make of them... Looking forward to hearing more!


Cheers, NinjaN
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Postby Clive At Five » Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:21 pm

Multiplayer: Guards versus agents

Enough said.
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Postby NinjaN » Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:29 am

Another one:

Make the agents valuable!
By this I mean they should kind of remember things you showed them before, like hacking a keypad lock of a given difficulty (which I assume has to be done by the player first). This also goes in line with one of the other ideas, namely that the player should only handle "new" problems. It's quite unrealistic I take all the same agents to a mission, yet they don't know anything at all.

This idea can also be thought further:
The game measures given skills, quite like a classic RPG. These skills could include something like:
  • Hacking (obviously)
  • Planting bombs
  • Opening safes
  • Short-circuiting electronics
  • Disabling surveillance cameras
  • Defusing bombs
  • Sensing and disarming laser traps
  • Manipulating devices
  • Shooting
  • Intimidating (to get hostages - yes, hostages - to do what you want)
  • dozens of things more...
You start of with a set of rookie agents and these skills will develop with each mission - learning by doing. If an agent reaches, say Level 2 on keypad locking, they can hack these all by themselves, no operator needed (if you give them this task, that is). If that agent is killed or captured, you have three choices:
  1. Start over with a new agent, let him learn this skill all over again, obviously starting at the very beginning
  2. Hire an expert agent, which of course costs a lot more money
  3. Rescue your captured agent, with the risk of losing even more valuable men


This way the game itself would feel a lot more persistent and alive, I think. Also it would stop players attempting suicide missions, because losing one agent really hurts because of his skills.



And one more idea:
Reward (morally) good players!
The less goes wrong (like shooting guards, bombing walls away), the better that mission should be rated.
We all know the robbers in heist movies are the good guys, right? They don't run around killing people and breaking stuff, they are GENTLEMEN!
Going Rambo should always be the very last option and should be punished in some way or the other (although I myself am likely going to play Subversion like that, if possible)



Cheers, NinjaN
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Postby naufrago » Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:12 am

I like that idea of having your agents upgrade through experience gained in missions and that losing them should be a pretty significant loss. Building off that, it would be nice to have multiple teams that you can call on for a job. For instance, you would use your A-team full of your best agents to get things done, skillfully and silently, but then you might have a B-, C-, or F-Team that get things done in a quick and dirty way, that are basically fodder you don't mind losing. You'd use the fodder on missions where you don't mind making a little noise or where you'll probably lose some agents by the end anyway. The main thing I'm trying to point out here, it would be nice to if your potential pool of agents is several times larger than the maximum number of agents you can send on a mission. It would make it easier to make specialist agents and specialist teams (and suicide squads).

Not losing your agents should also come with other benefits. If you prove yourself to be a good employer (a.k.a. you don't get your guys killed constantly), then the quantity and quality of the agents who want to work for you should increase. Likewise, if you constantly send your poor agents to their doom, only the dumbest and most desperate of agents should look to you for work... to a degree. You shouldn't be overly punished or you may get stuck in a rut where you constantly lose agents because they aren't skilled enough, which means only crappy agents will work for you, which gets them killed because of their crappy skills, etc. The best, most difficult heist you've pulled off should play a role in who wants to work for you. For example, if you've successfully robbed a bank for millions of credits, but your agents are constantly dying under your care, you should still get quite a few decent agents who want to work for you because it's potentially very beneficial for them to do so. Risk vs Reward would come out in your favor. Additionally, if you've gained a bad reputation as a crappy employer, you eventually should be able to work your way back into people's good graces by successfully completing a bunch of missions.

Maybe have a Loyalty gauge, where Loyalty is modified by how many missions they've done for you, how beneficial it is for them to work for you, and how often your other employees have died or been captured while working for you. Above a certain Loyalty, they will always be available to you. Below that threshold, the lower their Loyalty the less likely they are to show up on your selection screen. At higher Loyalty, they could cost less to hire and maybe offer something special.

I'm probably saying some stuff that's pretty obvious, but I like to think I'm just being thorough. =p


I also think Darwinians should be used as the character models, at least as placeholders. =3
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Postby xander » Sat Feb 27, 2010 4:18 pm

naufrago wrote:...A-team...

Would Mr T be on that team?

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Postby NinjaN » Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:20 pm

I pity the fool who wouldn't assign Mr T to his A-Team!
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Postby naufrago » Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:06 am

Looks like we'll need the option of adding a mohawk to the agent models. And a gold chain. And a guy with a cigar. Have them drive around in a van. Wanted by the government, they should survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem...if no one else can help...and if you can find them...maybe you can hire...The A-Team.

Funnily enough, that show was before my time. I really ought to watch it....

But seriously, mohawks, I will pre-order it if they're implemented. Well, I'd pre-order it anyway, but don't tell them that. They'd lose their motivation.
I really want to make my own A-Team =3
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Montyphy
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Postby Montyphy » Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:14 am

naufrago wrote:Funnily enough, that show was before my time. I really ought to watch it....


That part was painfully obvious considering you ignored/forgot Face, aka Starbuck. [size=0]Murdock too, but come on, Starbuck...[/size]
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Postby Phelanpt » Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:02 pm

And Murdock.

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