Prison Architect is now in Alpha

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jelco
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Postby jelco » Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:50 pm

Without getting into the debate itself (again) I do want to point out that saying "if you don't like it, don't do it" is a fallacious argument YouTube-style (and I mean that in the most negative way possible), and quite frankly a cheap cop-out to avoid the discussion. If I want to criticize the method I can do so regardless of whether I'm going along with it or not - it's not like I don't 'understand' it if I don't buy into it, or am any less qualified. Not only that, but a lot of people seem to ignore the fact that some people (such as myself) did actually pre-order the game but are still criticizing the method. The implication that only non-buyers are presenting criticism is not only based on a fallacy, it's also plain wrong.

A lot of posts here boil down to "if you say it's not awesome then don't do it, but I think it's awesome". That's not defending a statement, that's just poorly proposing an opinion without any valid arguments. If you don't feel like actually discussing the subject, then don't (see what I did there?). Just don't pretend you are discussing and making good and valid points when all you're doing is showing how bad you are at discussions.

Jelco
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Ace Rimmer
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Postby Ace Rimmer » Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:16 pm

In Soviet Russia, the Alpha Release buys you!

In other news, doesn't it simply boil down to a few basic points:

1. It's IV's game.
2. It's IV's game.
3. Its' IV's game.

and one last point,

4. It's IV's game.

:wink:

Whether or not you like the approach they've taken, or the price they've set is irrelevant. Yes? I'm certain they considered many options over the last several months, and using a set of factors, which we are unaware of (e.g. current financial standing of IV/Chris/Mark), they went with the 'best' option, for them. Does this mean there won't be consequences, such as people being upset at the method of delivery and information provided, of course not. There most certainly will be consequences (good and bad). For that, see points 1-4 listed above. In short, It's an unsolvable equation for us because we dont have enough information to make a complete statement. I'm sure some of you math kids can figure out a decent formula to insert here. :P

Personally, I think $30 is too high for PA (but not Defcon :P ). I have at least two copies of Defcon, and one of each of the other, even though I haven't (and won't) played Uplink or Darwinia. In time, I might fork over the cash, but can't right now.
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Xocrates
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Postby Xocrates » Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:58 pm

Ace Rimmer wrote: they went with the 'best' option, for them.

Of course, half the discussion is whether or not they actually did that.

Which means that having a healthy discussion about it is actually the "best" option for us. Since at the very least it should make IV aware of problems and alternatives to their choice that they might not have considered.
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Ace Rimmer
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Postby Ace Rimmer » Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:07 pm

Oh, I completely agree that discussing it can be helpful and is appropriate. No argument there. I was just puting the discussion in context. :P
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Postby zach » Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:08 pm

Discussion aside - digital immorto-criminalisation is tempting, but $250?

Still. Digital immorto-criminalisation.

EDIT: How vain am I to even consider that option?

EDIT2: I went with the $30 ... for now.
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Postby Mas Tnega » Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:53 pm

For $250, you TOO can have the whole world know what a rabid Prison Architect fanatic looks like!

(Self-awareness sold separately)
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Postby Rkiver » Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:31 pm

Yes, name in game, bought, happy Rkiver.
Uplink help: Read the FAQ
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mibias
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Postby mibias » Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:40 am

I was 13 when I made this account, back in the defcon beta. I had pirated all of the Introversion games because I didn't have the cash to buy all the games I wanted.
Of course, I own them all legally now thanks to humble bundles, steam sales and so on. Still, I am very happy to finally be able to throw some money at Introversion. $100 well spent.
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Postby Adam Black » Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:52 pm

Allow us to purchase all the Kickstarter-style perks if we want, but for goodness' sake make the alpha free for testing! Doesn't this impair the bug-finding process? This is not how it was done when we were beta-testing Darwinia.
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Postby xander » Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:20 pm

Adam Black wrote:Allow us to purchase all the Kickstarter-style perks if we want, but for goodness' sake make the alpha free for testing! Doesn't this impair the bug-finding process? This is not how it was done when we were beta-testing Darwinia.

Times change. Now get offa mah lawn!

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ynbniar
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Postby ynbniar » Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:31 pm

Adam Black wrote:Allow us to purchase all the Kickstarter-style perks if we want, but for goodness' sake make the alpha free for testing! Doesn't this impair the bug-finding process? This is not how it was done when we were beta-testing Darwinia.


I'm guessing, but I reckon the alpha is more about generating revenue and buzz rather than bug hunting.
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Postby Masochist » Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:33 pm

Adam Black wrote:Allow us to purchase all the Kickstarter-style perks if we want, but for goodness' sake make the alpha free for testing! Doesn't this impair the bug-finding process? This is not how it was done when we were beta-testing Darwinia.


Not really...the idea is to help it.

It also prevents flaky people from buying it (for cheap) or simply playing the alpha for free, then bitching all over the internet that its a buggy piece of crap. It also helps lower the number of duplicate bug reports and generally has the effect of more focused feedback than masses of people demanding compensation or some dumb crap that they think they are entitled too (like I see so many times with other games in the early stages).
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Postby jelco » Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:08 pm

Masochist wrote:It also helps lower the number of duplicate bug reports and generally has the effect of more focused feedback

Ha. Ahaha. Hahahahahaha! *ahem*

(Seriously, have you even looked at the alpha forum?)

Masochist wrote:It also prevents flaky people from buying it (for cheap) or simply playing the alpha for free, then bitching all over the internet that its a buggy piece of crap.
(...)
masses of people demanding compensation or some dumb crap that they think they are entitled too (like I see so many times with other games in the early stages).

I've never seen this happen in the past with IV betas, probably because when you do community tests most people know perfectly well what they're signing up for and adjust expectations (and behaviour) accordingly. Note that a free alpha doesn't mean everyone just gets access when they want to - there still is a selection procedure (as opposed to the current selection based on money, which is why your comment about "flaky people buying it" doesn't really make sense). I'm seeing more of this behaviour you're describing right now than I saw in previous tests.

Jelco
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Postby Mas Tnega » Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:38 pm

jelco wrote:
Masochist wrote:It also helps lower the number of duplicate bug reports and generally has the effect of more focused feedback

Ha. Ahaha. Hahahahahaha! *ahem*

(Seriously, have you even looked at the alpha forum?)
There's something frightening about an admin shitposting about a forum (except Defcon).

Masochist wrote:It also prevents flaky people from buying it (for cheap) or simply playing the alpha for free, then bitching all over the internet that its a buggy piece of crap.
All the paid-for part has really done is stop people from posting in the Developer section; anyone can just torrent the alpha (no DRM) and whine about it regardless.
Last edited by Mas Tnega on Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Radiobuzz » Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:00 pm

Masochist wrote:
Adam Black wrote:Allow us to purchase all the Kickstarter-style perks if we want, but for goodness' sake make the alpha free for testing! Doesn't this impair the bug-finding process? This is not how it was done when we were beta-testing Darwinia.


Not really...the idea is to help it.

It also prevents flaky people from buying it (for cheap) or simply playing the alpha for free, then bitching all over the internet that its a buggy piece of crap. It also helps lower the number of duplicate bug reports and generally has the effect of more focused feedback than masses of people demanding compensation or some dumb crap that they think they are entitled too (like I see so many times with other games in the early stages).


To be perfectly honest, the arguments you're giving sounds more like they belong to the opposite point (to pay for a product which does not function as it should).

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