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Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 3:58 am
by Pox
bert_the_turtle wrote:Please, please, persistent multiplayer world with that. I'd spend day in, day out building devious bombs and hiding them, leaving clues in messages to well respected players. Or mount them on IR sensor controlled, people seeking minicars. Tehehe.


Yes, yes, this. This.

It'll be like all those dangerous mechatronics projects I've dreamt of building, but with less risk of lawsuit or prison time.

Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:14 am
by elexis
I like that idea. An entire planet with everyone having their own little space for a city. You have to build a city and make it impenetrable to others. If you infiltrate another city you get their tresures, which you then have to protect yourself.

Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 7:49 am
by Wasgood
Pox wrote:
bert_the_turtle wrote:Please, please, persistent multiplayer world with that. I'd spend day in, day out building devious bombs and hiding them, leaving clues in messages to well respected players. Or mount them on IR sensor controlled, people seeking minicars. Tehehe.


Yes, yes, this. This.

It'll be like all those dangerous mechatronics projects I've dreamt of building, but with less risk of lawsuit or prison time.



MY GOD HE HAS HIT THE GOLD MINE.

Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 10:17 am
by Marquise Fishy TGF McGraw
Wasgood wrote:
Pox wrote:
bert_the_turtle wrote:Please, please, persistent multiplayer world with that. I'd spend day in, day out building devious bombs and hiding them, leaving clues in messages to well respected players. Or mount them on IR sensor controlled, people seeking minicars. Tehehe.


Yes, yes, this. This.

It'll be like all those dangerous mechatronics projects I've dreamt of building, but with less risk of lawsuit or prison time.



MY GOD HE HAS HIT THE GOLD MINE.


Oh shit guys, Uplink multiplayer! It would totally work.

Please, consider for at least a minute how anything you're talking about would even work. Because, as far as I can see, it wouldn't. Imagine a persistant gmod map - it sounds like a nice idea, but people quit and leave shit laying around, and no one cares about that stuff except that it's "in the way", nor do they probably care about anything you make. You all want to make wonderful chain reaction bombs and challenge people to difuse them. The problem is, no one gives a shit about your bombs, because they're basically undiffusable since they're so complicated, and no one even wants to diffuse bombs really anyway, they only wanted to play so they could make undiffusable bombs for other people to fail at diffusing so they can cackle to themselves. Multiplayer just doesn't work like that.

It doesn't even really work vs AI either because it basically boils down to a high maintenance (if you're using bombs) tower defense. Really it can only work as defence vs AI with a complicated learning AI, which will always eventually be defeated by finding something it simply doesn't have the ability to attempt (the only real way past this barrier is constant development). It works slightly better as AI vs player, where there is an auto generated defended tower which the player must attempt to infiltrate, but, this can very quickly turn into uplink, where it soon boils down to a "apply solution X to protection Y, hack, ????, profit" model. Both of these can however be adapted to (effectively cooperative) multiplayer if there is a constant hand of development, be it by the originals devs or by modability (but you need savvy modders or you just get nigh undiffusable bombs again)

Really, as a single player game, it would probably need to be a bespoke problem/solution game (ie, to some extent, a hand crafted puzzle game) to be successful in the sorts of gameplay you guys seem to want, with a learning curve development, content and a story. I don't think this is really where IV want to go any more, because they haven't previously had a) the ability to make a decision what route to take their games down when they design them like this (eg Darwinia) and b) sufficient people to design and produce the necessery content in a timely manner.

Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 1:36 pm
by Puzzlemaker
A non-persistent multiplayer world would work very well, I think. Maybe like an attack/defend multiplayer match, where one player has to defend something and the other has to break in. It would be fairly fun, especially if the other player can design his fortress ahead of time.

Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 9:40 pm
by arwin
Puzzlemaker wrote:A non-persistent multiplayer world would work very well, I think. Maybe like an attack/defend multiplayer match, where one player has to defend something and the other has to break in. It would be fairly fun, especially if the other player can design his fortress ahead of time.


I wish for single player and purchasable Linux version from the day of game release. :shock: If it has to be ported I fear it won't happen :(

bug brain

Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 9:26 pm
by proboscidean
This reminds me of a fantastic bug brain simulation, http://www.biologic.com.au/bugbrain/, where you create neural nets to make bugs do things. Freed of the limitations of binary, fairly simple brains could create extremely complex behavior. On top of that, the interface was very simple, and intuitive. Well worth taking a look at.

Re: bug brain

Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 9:55 pm
by Rkiver
proboscidean wrote:This reminds me of a fantastic bug brain simulation, http://www.biologic.com.au/bugbrain/, where you create neural nets to make bugs do things. Freed of the limitations of binary, fairly simple brains could create extremely complex behavior. On top of that, the interface was very simple, and intuitive. Well worth taking a look at.


Hmm...spam.

Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 10:44 pm
by proboscidean
Rkiver: didn't mean it to be spam, although looking back at the post it does look it. I guess I have overly fond memories of it because that game was what turned be on to neurobiology way back in high school. I was simply trying to say that the problems he is trying to solve with binary logic - taking sensor inputs and outputting control signals for actuators - is exactly what Bug Brain allows you to do, only with a neural network. And it does it quite elegantly with a good UI. In that game, you take sensor input from, say, a nose, and use it to steer an inch worm; not conceptually different from taking an input from an electronic motion sensor and actuating a door.

Re: bug brain

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 12:41 am
by RabidZombie
Rkiver wrote:
proboscidean wrote:This reminds me of a fantastic bug brain simulation, http://www.biologic.com.au/bugbrain/, where you create neural nets to make bugs do things. Freed of the limitations of binary, fairly simple brains could create extremely complex behavior. On top of that, the interface was very simple, and intuitive. Well worth taking a look at.


Hmm...spam.


Spam? For free download, with minimal ads? It doesn't make sense!

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 1:04 am
by Phelanpt
Seems like an interesting way to teach neural networks.

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:43 pm
by maninalift
Phelanpt wrote:Seems like an interesting way to teach neural networks.


not really.

It may be a good game but it doesn't really "teach neural networks". Simple, logical, hand-coded networks is does not communicate what is interesting about neural networks, which is their ability to adapt. How useful artificial neural nets work is much deeper and more interesting, and how real brains work is more interesting still.

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:42 pm
by Phelanpt
Ok, let me correct then: Looks like an interesting way of introducing someone to neural networks.

Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:51 am
by gamers2000
Methinks that we shouldn't force a certain gameplay mode onto this fantastic engine.

Methinks Introversion should release it as just that - a fantastic, fantastic engine. Imagine the possibilities!

Methinks the players will find many great gamemodes for the engine.

Methinks I should stop thinking now.

Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:25 pm
by Luca
Amazing! Never heard of WireMod before, but I am going to have to give it a go when I get home!

Also you guys really know how to tease your fan base! I want it now!