It's all in your head, Part 17

The only place you'll ever hear the truth
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Marquise Fishy TGF McGraw
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Postby Marquise Fishy TGF McGraw » Thu May 28, 2009 10:17 am

Wasgood wrote:
Pox wrote:
bert_the_turtle wrote:Please, please, persistent multiplayer world with that. I'd spend day in, day out building devious bombs and hiding them, leaving clues in messages to well respected players. Or mount them on IR sensor controlled, people seeking minicars. Tehehe.


Yes, yes, this. This.

It'll be like all those dangerous mechatronics projects I've dreamt of building, but with less risk of lawsuit or prison time.



MY GOD HE HAS HIT THE GOLD MINE.


Oh shit guys, Uplink multiplayer! It would totally work.

Please, consider for at least a minute how anything you're talking about would even work. Because, as far as I can see, it wouldn't. Imagine a persistant gmod map - it sounds like a nice idea, but people quit and leave shit laying around, and no one cares about that stuff except that it's "in the way", nor do they probably care about anything you make. You all want to make wonderful chain reaction bombs and challenge people to difuse them. The problem is, no one gives a shit about your bombs, because they're basically undiffusable since they're so complicated, and no one even wants to diffuse bombs really anyway, they only wanted to play so they could make undiffusable bombs for other people to fail at diffusing so they can cackle to themselves. Multiplayer just doesn't work like that.

It doesn't even really work vs AI either because it basically boils down to a high maintenance (if you're using bombs) tower defense. Really it can only work as defence vs AI with a complicated learning AI, which will always eventually be defeated by finding something it simply doesn't have the ability to attempt (the only real way past this barrier is constant development). It works slightly better as AI vs player, where there is an auto generated defended tower which the player must attempt to infiltrate, but, this can very quickly turn into uplink, where it soon boils down to a "apply solution X to protection Y, hack, ????, profit" model. Both of these can however be adapted to (effectively cooperative) multiplayer if there is a constant hand of development, be it by the originals devs or by modability (but you need savvy modders or you just get nigh undiffusable bombs again)

Really, as a single player game, it would probably need to be a bespoke problem/solution game (ie, to some extent, a hand crafted puzzle game) to be successful in the sorts of gameplay you guys seem to want, with a learning curve development, content and a story. I don't think this is really where IV want to go any more, because they haven't previously had a) the ability to make a decision what route to take their games down when they design them like this (eg Darwinia) and b) sufficient people to design and produce the necessery content in a timely manner.
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Postby Puzzlemaker » Thu May 28, 2009 1:36 pm

A non-persistent multiplayer world would work very well, I think. Maybe like an attack/defend multiplayer match, where one player has to defend something and the other has to break in. It would be fairly fun, especially if the other player can design his fortress ahead of time.
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Postby arwin » Thu May 28, 2009 9:40 pm

Puzzlemaker wrote:A non-persistent multiplayer world would work very well, I think. Maybe like an attack/defend multiplayer match, where one player has to defend something and the other has to break in. It would be fairly fun, especially if the other player can design his fortress ahead of time.


I wish for single player and purchasable Linux version from the day of game release. :shock: If it has to be ported I fear it won't happen :(
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bug brain

Postby proboscidean » Sat May 30, 2009 9:26 pm

This reminds me of a fantastic bug brain simulation, http://www.biologic.com.au/bugbrain/, where you create neural nets to make bugs do things. Freed of the limitations of binary, fairly simple brains could create extremely complex behavior. On top of that, the interface was very simple, and intuitive. Well worth taking a look at.
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Re: bug brain

Postby Rkiver » Sat May 30, 2009 9:55 pm

proboscidean wrote:This reminds me of a fantastic bug brain simulation, http://www.biologic.com.au/bugbrain/, where you create neural nets to make bugs do things. Freed of the limitations of binary, fairly simple brains could create extremely complex behavior. On top of that, the interface was very simple, and intuitive. Well worth taking a look at.


Hmm...spam.
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Postby proboscidean » Sat May 30, 2009 10:44 pm

Rkiver: didn't mean it to be spam, although looking back at the post it does look it. I guess I have overly fond memories of it because that game was what turned be on to neurobiology way back in high school. I was simply trying to say that the problems he is trying to solve with binary logic - taking sensor inputs and outputting control signals for actuators - is exactly what Bug Brain allows you to do, only with a neural network. And it does it quite elegantly with a good UI. In that game, you take sensor input from, say, a nose, and use it to steer an inch worm; not conceptually different from taking an input from an electronic motion sensor and actuating a door.
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Re: bug brain

Postby RabidZombie » Sun May 31, 2009 12:41 am

Rkiver wrote:
proboscidean wrote:This reminds me of a fantastic bug brain simulation, http://www.biologic.com.au/bugbrain/, where you create neural nets to make bugs do things. Freed of the limitations of binary, fairly simple brains could create extremely complex behavior. On top of that, the interface was very simple, and intuitive. Well worth taking a look at.


Hmm...spam.


Spam? For free download, with minimal ads? It doesn't make sense!
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Phelanpt
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Postby Phelanpt » Sun May 31, 2009 1:04 am

Seems like an interesting way to teach neural networks.
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Postby maninalift » Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:43 pm

Phelanpt wrote:Seems like an interesting way to teach neural networks.


not really.

It may be a good game but it doesn't really "teach neural networks". Simple, logical, hand-coded networks is does not communicate what is interesting about neural networks, which is their ability to adapt. How useful artificial neural nets work is much deeper and more interesting, and how real brains work is more interesting still.
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Postby Phelanpt » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:42 pm

Ok, let me correct then: Looks like an interesting way of introducing someone to neural networks.
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Postby gamers2000 » Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:51 am

Methinks that we shouldn't force a certain gameplay mode onto this fantastic engine.

Methinks Introversion should release it as just that - a fantastic, fantastic engine. Imagine the possibilities!

Methinks the players will find many great gamemodes for the engine.

Methinks I should stop thinking now.
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Postby Luca » Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:25 pm

Amazing! Never heard of WireMod before, but I am going to have to give it a go when I get home!

Also you guys really know how to tease your fan base! I want it now!
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Postby Zeirus » Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:01 pm

Luca wrote:Amazing! Never heard of WireMod before, but I am going to have to give it a go when I get home!

Also you guys really know how to tease your fan base! I want it now!


Subversion, with only minor modifications, might be a good program to teach the logic of the PLC to students in a "virtual 3d world"! Today there is nothing like the conceptual gameplay design of Subversion.

Please, see this open-source tool as example of Visual PLC programmation

http://www.beremiz.org/

There is a standard specification in industry of PLC: IEC 61131

With a Structured Text and a Ladder Logic. There is nothing to be reinvented... try to apply IEC 61131 in Subversion and simplify it, but with same symbols and logic programmation of the standard, plus LUA scripting as amalgam between the two syntax

Over time Subversion could become, in parallel, an excellent tool for the teaching of the PLC programmation in virtual 3D world, with fun and dynamic learning... the only one in the world!!!

P.S.: Sorry for my bad english
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Postby RGanB » Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:01 pm

Marquise Fishy TGF McGraw wrote:[...]

Please, consider for at least a minute how anything you're talking about would even work.[...].


edit: my bad i was refering to subversion. (that is why i am talking about buildings)

Hi I don't think, that is necessarily true.

I think multiplayer could work in a similar way to the scenario editor from stronghold, where you designed a castle saved it and then challenged other players to breach that castle (playing against ai) (if I remember correctly). While building the castle you had a specific budget that you could use to build walls buy soldiers/archers etc.

A similar system could work quite well in subversion. The only difference would be, that you're not building a castle and placing archers, but choosing a building and installing all kinds of security systems (within an budget).
After that, you upload your building to a central repository. Then your created building will be used instead of a generated building in the game somebody else is playing (the next time he updates from the repository).
The game could keep stats how often you're buildings securioty was penetrated and the amount of time it took players. (possibly replays?) This of course would then allow global hi-scores on best secured building etc.

Of course right now i haven't addressed your central point being: who would run around trying to breach the security? The answer is me :D

greets
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Last edited by RGanB on Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Rkiver » Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:13 pm

For the love of....

Stop bringing up Uplink multiplayer.
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