It's all in your head, Part 16

The only place you'll ever hear the truth
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Postby trickser » Fri May 22, 2009 6:17 pm

Its beautiful to see it growing in every post. Really.


About the business model considerations: I have a objection, IV games are a bit more mainstream then a ASCII graphics hardcore roleplaying game. I am sure that would work for IV too, to some degree. But maybe Subversion has enough hit potential to buy IV the next 2 development cycles or so.
But i guess IV is looking for a more safe business model rather then a risky one, recalling the 'this was our 2008' posts.
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Postby NeatNit » Fri May 22, 2009 8:27 pm

andrewf wrote:You could develop the game like this:
Start off with a decent version (v1.0) which has the basic simulation features and some storyline/missions for 15£
and than work on updates every 4 months for 5£ that add a new layer of depth and/or story to the game.
Holy shit, he's trying to turn Introversion into EA!!!
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Postby andrewf » Sun May 24, 2009 10:16 am

NeatNit wrote:Holy shit, he's trying to turn Introversion into EA!!!

In which game does EA do so? Are you refering to the sims?

I totally wouldn't mind paying a small amount for a game with an ever increasing depth. I think if Chris really sees this project larger than a single game, why not go for such a business model?

A continiously improving game would be awesome. A refreshing game experience in a familiar gameworld every few months.
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Postby NeatNit » Sun May 24, 2009 12:04 pm

andrewf wrote:
NeatNit wrote:Holy shit, he's trying to turn Introversion into EA!!!

In which game does EA do so? Are you refering to the sims?
Let's see...
The Sims x10000
The Sims 2 x10000
The Sims 3 (you'll see) x10000
Spore

That's all the EA games I've heard of, because:
1. After seeing the Sims I decided to look away from anything with 'EA' on it
2. All those games were the extremely advrtised ones

I have no reason to doubt there are a lot more like them.


But really, it's not just that EA does the expansion packs - that 'business model' is for devs who don't care for their fans and only want $$$. In a word - EA.
andrewf wrote:I totally wouldn't mind paying a small amount for a game with an ever increasing depth. I think if Chris really sees this project larger than a single game, why not go for such a business model?

A continiously improving game would be awesome. A refreshing game experience in a familiar gameworld every few months.
Well, I think it would make them lose quite a few fans. Definitely me.
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Postby jelco » Sun May 24, 2009 12:41 pm

Alright, to put it in a less moronic way: there's nothing wrong with expanding a game later on, the problem is with having to pay for each and every single update. There's several differences between an expansion pack and a patch/update, and the most obvious one is that patches and updates usually come for free.

I mean sure, the updating thing obviously has a lot going for it (TF2 anyone?) but suggesting a fee for every time you use this is rather dubious - especially if Subversion is going to be about sharing in some way or another (which currently seems like a likely direction), when updates are somewhat mandatory.

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Postby Xocrates » Sun May 24, 2009 1:04 pm

Perhaps we should note however, that continuously updating for free may not be sustainable for most companies, and Introversion in particular.

TF2 does that, but valve not only does own several of the more successful and loved games of all times, as they also have Steam which is the number one digital distribution platform. Most companies are more than happy to just release patches and maybe the occasional map, and quite frankly in most cases I doubt they even have the manpower to do more than that.

Free stuff is always welcome, but how exactly is it reliably sustainable?
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Postby jelco » Sun May 24, 2009 1:39 pm

Definitely true. However, my main point was the difference between an expansion pack and an update - based on that you can release updates in the beginning and expand the game significantly later on for a small fee. Asking money for every little update is just wrong, that's all. Either make the updates bigger or don't ask money for everything (not to say asking money for updates at all is a bad practice).

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Postby NeatNit » Sun May 24, 2009 4:18 pm

The point is knowing the difference between an expansion pack or two and 5+.

If the expansion packs would be like Multiwinia is to Darwinia - bringing completely new content and gameplay and whatnot (even though it's not really an expansion pack, just a new game) - then I definitely would not mind buying them for Subversion, but if it's something like some extra levels, a few parts of the story, stuff like that - then no thanks, I would rather pay once for the game, maybe add a buck for a level editor and have the rest modded by fans. (Not that I don't believe that a level editor would come with the game, I'm just saying)
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Postby sfericz » Sun May 24, 2009 6:45 pm

Yeah, When I see "expansion pack" I expect to see a whole new story line and levels to go with it. Just keeping with the same genre and concept of the game. (Which I would pay for.)
The only updates I would like to see are probably bug fixes, and maybe a few new tricks. (Which should be free to the buyer to download.)

The main reason I love Introversion, is their ability to let the community mod the heck out of their games. Which it looks like they are going to do for Subversion, YAY!
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Postby estel » Mon May 25, 2009 4:02 pm

Xocrates wrote:Perhaps we should note however, that continuously updating for free may not be sustainable for most companies, and Introversion in particular.

TF2 does that, but valve not only does own several of the more successful and loved games of all times, as they also have Steam which is the number one digital distribution platform. Most companies are more than happy to just release patches and maybe the occasional map, and quite frankly in most cases I doubt they even have the manpower to do more than that.

Free stuff is always welcome, but how exactly is it reliably sustainable?


I would propose that when Valve release free content updates for TF2, they are able to sufficiently hype the whole release, and include so much extra content and stuff in it, that the release itself significantly increases the game's sales; particularly like last weekend when sales seemed to significantly increase with the triple-whammy of content-update, free weekend and price cut.
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Postby darthkiwi » Tue May 26, 2009 2:55 pm

Whenever I see another blog post about Subversion I immediately sit up, pay attention and cry: "Aha!" It's really interesting seeing this complex *thing* (I'm not really sure what it is yet) evolving, with increasingly intriguing things extrapolated and integrated into the whole. It was particularly nice to see people (of a kind) in this one, apparently autonomous.

On the subject of additional content: if you think it's feasible to release small, periodic updates to improve the game and hopefully maintain sales then go for it. I'm not a marketeer so I have no idea whether this is a good idea or not. I side with most others here, though, when I say that paying (even small amounts) for such updates would make me cringe a bit, and would probably put most non-IV fans right off. (And although you haven't mentioned this idea, and probably wouldn't put it into practice anyway: a monthly subscription fee would be utterly unbearable.) But I'd be more than willing to pay for large expansion-pack type updates. I'd even be willing to buy a new "Campaign" (for want of a better word) with no new features but with a whole slew of levels and plot (like the HL2 episodes).
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Postby martin » Tue May 26, 2009 4:43 pm

Any chance you could do a few renders of various different cities generated in the new system for desktop wallpapers?
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What is subversion going to be?

Postby arwin » Wed May 27, 2009 10:07 am

Sorry for my ignorance, but I have been trying to find out what Subversion is going to be in the end? I mean a strategy game or a simulator (SimCity) or something in between?

Your other games brought back the Fun in gaming, so I'm waiting in anticipation for Subversion!
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Postby arwin » Wed May 27, 2009 10:08 am

martin wrote:Any chance you could do a few renders of various different cities generated in the new system for desktop wallpapers?


That would have been nice!
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Postby martin » Wed May 27, 2009 12:06 pm

arwin wrote:Sorry for my ignorance, but I have been trying to find out what Subversion is going to be in the end? I mean a strategy game or a simulator (SimCity) or something in between?

Your other games brought back the Fun in gaming, so I'm waiting in anticipation for Subversion!


It's not ignorance, at the moment no one but the guys at introversion know what it'll be.

arwin wrote:
martin wrote:Any chance you could do a few renders of various different cities generated in the new system for desktop wallpapers?


That would have been nice!


Well it sounds like the data driven cities are still a work in progress, but hopefully they can make some during testing and release them to us

*HINT HINT* ;)
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