Copy Protection DRM

[darkstar782]

I'm not convinced about the "10 to 1" thing.

I bought Uplink quite early. Not so early that I got one of the hand made CDs, but early enough that I had to wait for them to press their first batch of proper CDs and got a free bonus disk as a thankyou for waiting.

Now, I have no idea where the disk is today. Or the code card for that matter. I have probably gotten back into uplink and then got bored again 5-6 times since its release, like around the time IV released a new game, I'd get tempted back to uplink for a while. When I got a laptop, I got tempted back to play with dual screens, etc.

I know I've downloaded Uplink a couple of times from torrent sites on those replays - its easier than tearing my house apart looking for the CD and code card!!

I've also re-downloaded all the patches each time.

As such, my one original sale, probably accounts for 5-6 patch downloads.

If we assume most people are similar, its suddenly alot less than 10 to 1....




Lastly, I agree that Steam is the way forward

[xander]

If we assume most people are similar, its suddenly alot less than 10 to 1....

And on what do you base that assumption?

Some people upgrade their systems with some frequency, get new computers, monkey around with things, and are forced to redownload and reinstall software reasonably often. However, it has been my experience that most people do not do this. Those of us that do tend to be in the "technological elite" (i.e. people who like to tinker). So, while there may be a good number of people who do tinker, and have downloaded the game/patches multiple times for legitimate reasons, there is no reason to assume that everyone who has downloaded the patches from IV is like that.

Of course, there are enough that the "10 to 1" number is probably slightly inflated, but probably not hugely so. The point is that there are likely more pirate copies out there than legitimate ones.

In conclusion, anecdotes do not mean much of anything, and the plural of "anecdote" is not "data." ;)

xander

[KBAegis]

I say we conduct a survey. Everyone who stole a copy of Uplink without first buying it, please raise your hands. We will then take that data and put it into a complete statistical model with unquantified propagated error and browbeat people on forums with the precise values we derive. Can anyone support versioning for the algorithm?

And Steam is a bit intrusive. There are better ways of doing this, I think, without essentially adding a DRM AND SPYWARE component into the kernel [don't know exactly how invasive Steam is, but it does make registry tags and upload personal data].

Also, the question that's been killing me: if one steam engine starts at 3:45 in Windows Vista playing Half-Life 2, and another starts at 5:21 in WINE playing the same, which will crash first?

[shinygerbil]

...I fail to see any point in that post besides overly laboured attempts at geek humour?

Or is that alcohol clouding my mind?


edit:yeah, alcohol

[NeoThermic]

And Steam is a bit intrusive. There are better ways of doing this, I think, without essentially adding a DRM AND SPYWARE component into the kernel [don't know exactly how invasive Steam is, but it does make registry tags and upload personal data].

Uhh. ok. You can't sit there and say "I don't know exactly how invasive Steam is" and then go on to say "it does make registry tags and upload personal data"

First, registry tags are required for applications to install, or they'd have to store their config in .ini files. Those are the thing of the past, as the registry is far cleaner (although more annoying to backup just a few application, it has to be said). Second of all, no personal data past what you send to the steam servers is sent. As in, you have to opt-in on any data bar your login details. If you don't like steam, you don't have to use it, but trust me, it's far far far less invasive than DRM schemes like SecuROM or StarForce.

Infact, Steam is better. I can have an install of my steam games on all my computers, and just log into steam at the computer I'm at to play any of my games. In this instance, it's like always having the game discs with me.

NeoThermic

[RabidZombie]

Infact, Steam is better. I can have an install of my steam games on all my computers, and just log into steam at the computer I'm at to play any of my games. In this instance, it's like always having the game discs with me.

NeoThermic

Except for Bioshock. Where you can't install it on all your computers.

[NeoThermic]

Infact, Steam is better. I can have an install of my steam games on all my computers, and just log into steam at the computer I'm at to play any of my games. In this instance, it's like always having the game discs with me.

NeoThermic

Except for Bioshock. Where you can't install it on all your computers.

That'd be because BioShock is still using SecuROM despite being on Steam. It's an exception because the developers wanted it to be, not because of a failing in the Steam platform.

NeoThermic

[KBAegis]

Alright, well apparently somewhere between trying too hard to be funny and offending Steam supporters I failed to construe my point: Uplink has probably has been stolen, it's hard to say exactly how much, and absurd to try to quantify the loss to Introversion.

And that's probably true, NeoThermic. I just don't like the added runtime Steam takes, or the potential for security exploits it could create. To be fair, I only played around with it for about 20 minutes before I got rid of my copy of Half-Life 2 and reformatted my HDD.

Personally, I think this is a disturbing trend. Earlier this year some Apple DRM software hijacked my computer and started adding services to Windows that I couldn't control, deactivate, or audit. Mainly, I don't like the fact that DRM isn't transparent. There's no disincentive for the companies to collude with marketing and advertisement firms.

And as far as Half-Life 2, it ended up comming out on X-Box anyways.

[RabidZombie]

Infact, Steam is better. I can have an install of my steam games on all my computers, and just log into steam at the computer I'm at to play any of my games. In this instance, it's like always having the game discs with me.

NeoThermic

Except for Bioshock. Where you can't install it on all your computers.

That'd be because BioShock is still using SecuROM despite being on Steam. It's an exception because the developers wanted it to be, not because of a failing in the Steam platform.

NeoThermic

I never said it was a failing in the Steam platform. Just pointing out how even Steam isn't free from retarded publishers/developers.

(Also, I love Steam.)

Edit: Looks like everyone in the Introversion community has added me already!

[Seanner27]

I personally JUST "illegally" downloaded Uplink using Bittorrent! I was reading an article on piracy which linked to here and mentioned Uplink so I figured yeah I should download that again from direct2drive.

Of course, this was after the one I paid for from direct2drive and Trymedia failed to activate, and upon reading through the support FAQs (and following a link to actual customer service that resulted in a 404 error...) for direct2drive, and upon seeing a 24-48 hour time-to-reply from Trymedia, and in general spending enough time to the point that with any reasonably paying job I could've made the money needed to buy the game again from a more reliable source for the equivalent hours expended trying to get it to work...that I decided to torrent it.

Nevertheless, the game was paid for, but now I'm one of the statistics that own a pirated copy and have downloaded patches as stated in original post.

How many of us have bought Starcraft and/or Diablo battlechests at least 300 times because the CD got scratched or we lost the key and it's like 10-20 bucks anyway? I believe I've gotten Diablo 2 at least 4 times, Starcraft 2-3 times. A few of my friends have bought Starcraft over 5 times.

People aren't necessarily evil. They will pay for things they want. They already have the money. It's not hard to hand someone some money and then install a game in a few minutes and start playing. In fact with credit you don't even need the money. See current economic conditions in America.

I've downloaded other games as well, because they simply aren't worth anywhere near what the price is. As no one is losing out in that case (I wouldn't have paid for it, and it's free to copy), what's the difference? They either weren't getting my $50 dollars, or were NOT getting my $50. The difference is that I capped not in the second sentence. If one day the game gets marked down and the semi-good game suddenly becomes worth it, I'll more than happily buy it (once for everytime I lose the CD...). On the flip side, there is a lot of harm when a legitimately paid for game fails to work even after significant effort because of some idiot's attempt to get me to not copy the game I had no intention of copying...

Charge me with copyright infringement, but refund every dollar I've spent on a game when they haven't worked because:

1. the minimum system requirements are actually LOLWAYHIGHER <10 fps for an first person shooter with everything on minimum no background programs etc.

2. the game does not work at all / frequently crashes (just wait for AI-driven cars of the future...I'm putting my faith in those...yeah sorry your husband died but funny story really, turns out the intel processor that controls the steering has this corner-case in the winter driving logic involving temperatures at zero degrees causing a divide by zero that locks the processor and thus prevents AI steering until it is reset. Of course, you can't sue us because we put a disclaimer saying to stay awake and the product is not implied fit for any specific purpose or warranted against acts of god and cannot be used to manufacture nuclear weapons like it says in the iTunes EULA (?!?!?))

3. the game worked, but was unbelievably bad, however there was no demo and for some reason I felt like being a nice guy and paying for something instead of downloading it only to pay for it if I liked it (or maybe I was at a college at the time and couldn't use the programs necessary), but of course the company doesn't offer refunds

4. the game cannot be activated (Uplink as mentioned above, but also Rainbow 6: Vegas and Call of Duty 2...come to think of it...stick with Steam over direct2drive for anyone that likes downloading, and yes filling out this customer support form I'll be happy to search my emails for the # of the receipt of the game that for some reason you wouldn't have in your own database, in which case why are you asking for it when I could just make a number up unless you knew what the correct number was, but then why ask OMFG MY HEAD HURTS but good it will only take 3 days to find out that you recommend I try deactivating my anti-virus that I already put in the ticket that I don't have, followed by ensuring that my monitor IS on and that there is power supplied to my building and computer because I obviously emailed you through advanced non-electric ultracomputers that I've recently invented which is probably why the game isn't working, so my fault there)

But the real way to combat piracy is to make awesome games like Madden 2037 "now with action-response-touch-dodge-technology!" or whatever stupid new feature differentiates it from the previous iteration and charge $50 for it. Well, so long as OTHER people like the game and have to have a real copy to play online, then the previous statement would be accurate without the sarcasm--same logic used in original post. Perhaps not so much with Madden because I have to imagine a large # of users would play people in real life over at their house while drinking beer or whatever, but I don't have statistics on this.

The point is that the gaming industry as a whole is largely responsible for piracy. What? Metallica's suing me for using Napster to download their latest ****ty songs? I'm suing them for stealing my $20 for overhearing them. Yea-haaah (in Metallica voice, automatically makes songs worth $20 right?!?) We don't buy your music because it sucks. We don't buy your games because they suck. We don't buy your cars because they suck and we can't afford them. I pay taxes even though they suck which are then used to bailout the car companies that made sucky cars and the wall street execs that made sucky decisions in this very hands-on suddenly USSR-like sucky government that will of course necessitate a large increase in sucky taxes! Wow, the world is about to end. I just wanted to talk about piracy, but it looks we'll have to start a revolution soon.

[NeatNit]

HUGE bump. And by huge I mean the bump and the post.

[Xocrates]

You signed the forums in order to bump a year old thread with an overly long post with every pro-piracy cliché out there?

EDIT: Ninja'd

[Cooper42]

I personally JUST "illegally" downloaded Uplink using Bittorrent! I was reading an article on piracy which linked to here and mentioned Uplink so I figured yeah I should download that again from direct2drive.

Of course, this was after the one I paid for from direct2drive and Trymedia failed to activate, and upon reading through the support FAQs (and following a link to actual customer service that resulted in a 404 error...) for direct2drive, and upon seeing a 24-48 hour time-to-reply from Trymedia, and in general spending enough time to the point that with any reasonably paying job I could've made the money needed to buy the game again from a more reliable source for the equivalent hours expended trying to get it to work...that I decided to torrent it.

Nevertheless, the game was paid for, but now I'm one of the statistics that own a pirated copy and have downloaded patches as stated in original post.

Error no. 1: Using third party download sites.

With indie games, buying direct from the developer is almost always the best way to do it. The money goes to the right place, downloads are direct and require no silly front-ends and the customer service is almost universally better - as you're dealing with the makers of the game who do want you to have a good experience.

As for the rest, that's a boring old rehash of some of the pro-piracy statements, some of which I tempted to agree with, but ending with puerile, facetious claims which so are too often found amongst the majority of payment-free downloaders. Rather than the more convincing and thought through arguments from the anti-copyright and pro-information exchange groups (who, as much as I agree with many of the arguments, most particularly that the internet provides for information to almost be an actor in its own right and can be said to seek free exchange, a feature of the internet that is its greatest strength and will be nigh impossible to change, but who are a minority in a world dominated by unthinking young people who should just be honest about their desire for 'free stuff')

[RabidZombie]

Get a refund from Direct2Drive and give Introversion your money directly. You have no excuse for pirating it. There are other options you could have taken.

On the Introversion store, you get a physical CD and access to a download of the game. Hell you can download it as many times as you like AND IT'S DRM FREE.

(Also, what you got would be an unsupported copy spread by a publisher who filed for bankruptcy and isn't paying Introversion everything they owe.)

[Phelanpt]

Ranting bump is ranty.
I was going to post more, but RabidZombie said all I was going to say.