Zjoere's Prison TWG :game over - guard wolves win

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ynbniar
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Postby ynbniar » Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:32 pm

Yes way too easy to kill the seer... :roll:

No way the wolfs should be able to narrow down the seer so easily.

Vanilla rules rule :!:
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Postby Mas Tnega » Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:52 pm

On the mechanics:
  • Wolves knew way too much. We killed the Seer on day one, knowing that we were either killing the Seer right then or that he was already dead.
  • Even if we just knew the gangs well enough to identify team guard, we could have just had a campaign of guard murdering no matter how many humans there were. The Seer's just that much of a threat.
  • On the human side, I don't think the gang aspect really came into play. I suggested we share any gang PMs; either we didn't share or didn't have any to share.
  • I think four wolves was one too many.
  • The other wolves needed to know about that little subclause in wolf victory. Somewolf would have strategically thrown me under the bus on day three to get a shot of winning with that. Giving humans another day is way better than losing outright; they'd definitely do it.

On how it played out (or "On how we lucked out")
  • None of us tried killing a guard on Day one, we just exploited it in the night because the names and affiliations were there in front of us.
  • I wasn't sure if anyone would take what I said on day two as a dare to vote for Ace, but I'm glad someone did. Xocrates nearly RNG'd himself into a noose.
  • On day three, somehow Xocrates wasn't suspected anymore and Xarlaxas and Foxsake were. Foxsake needed to put his toothbrush where his vote was.
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Postby zjoere » Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:12 pm

Thanks for all the feedback. There were 4 wolves for 13 players. I thought 1/3 of the playing group was an except able amount of wolves. I thought I read that somewhere. (edit: I read it in the wikipedia on Mafia party game)
This game was indeed a bit too easy for the wolves. I'll stick with vanilla rules next time. And the gang clause secondary win condition wasn't clear indeed, sorry :oops:
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Postby Xocrates » Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:18 pm

I think the customary is 1/4 (my personal rule of thumb is that the game should be able to last until at least day 4), though the amount of advantages the rule gave us would make 4 wolves too many even if 1/3 was customary.
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Postby shinygerbil » Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:24 pm

Har, I knew Feud was a wolfie -_-
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Re: Zjoere's Prison TWG :game over - guard wolves win

Postby Cooper42 » Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:52 pm

zjoere wrote:Wolves will be spread randomly across gangs to keep things interesting.
For me this was the clincher about not pushing for more organisation in the gang.

I got in contact with Ace to give him a heads up about the possibility of getting a tie on the day he was lynched. In the end, I think he noticed NeatNit's mistake in not bolding the vote and I hadn't...

I had nothing to go on. Forgot / didn't have time to protect anyone on the first night, protected myself the second night.

I was considering who to protect this night, but it was worthless in the end. I had a hunch it was either Xocrates or koschenky as a wolf. Both were pushing the boat out on Xarlaxas / Foxsake respectively.
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Postby NeatNit » Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:07 am

Title: We should team up.
NeatNit wrote:Have you had any contact with Xarlaxas? I haven't. The one time he spoke yesterday was.. Not too convincing. I ain't gonna attack him, but I don't exactly trust him either.

Being alone in here... Solo... Isn't a really good idea. And because I can't trust Xarlaxas, you're all I've got. So, what do you say... You in?


I am human, of course. Do you have any special role?




By the way, what're you in for? Me, I'm here for stealing some lady's purse. And killing her husband.

Laika_rus wrote:Sure, since we are from one gang. I don't know about Xarlaxas much, but I guess it's better to keep him alive, for now at least.

Well I am a regular human with a sharp toothbrush. Thought tonight about showing it to ynbniar, but well, good grief. At least we have something to eat now.

Tell me if you have any good ideas for using it.

As for the last question.. It's a long story I'll save till the moment when we are free.

NeatNit wrote:Best if you keep it for a while. Good to know we have that on our side! Awesome. I haven't seen my toothbrush in... Way, way too long...

*num num*

But should anything happen to you, I'm taking your toothbrush.

*num num*

Have you tasted this kidney? Here, you gotta try some.

Oh man, it's been so long since I ate a kidney! Damn, feels good.

[size=0]that's why i killed him[/size]



After he died:
Title: Laika_rus and his toothbrush
To zjoere, NeatNit wrote:I am looking for his toothbrush. He probably kept it on him, in a hidden pocket maybe. I'll also look through his stuff, bed, and everything.

I looked everywhere.

Did I find it?

zjoere wrote:You find a toothbrush. Unfortunately it's not a sharpened one. So you can't kill anyone with it. You do have a back-up toothbrush now though in case you ever loose your own not sharpened one.


*sigh*

I was planning to stab Xocrates with that. I'm still not sure why, but I was completely sure he was a wolf. And I was right.
As it turned out later, Laika_rus just lied to me back then. When he was eaten by wolves I was sure he was just telling the truth, but I guess he thought revealing a fake role was more convincing than just saying he's human.



About breaking the rules... I know it's kind of a dirty move, but I left it up to the GM to decide. If Laika really did have the sharp toothbrush, I doubt he'd let me find it, but I had to take that chance.

This game was insanely biased in favor of the wolves. That coupled with the fact that I had hardly any time to check the thread, and on a crappy mobile connection on a crappy phone at that... It wasn't too enjoyable, and I tried to squeeze some last-minute juice out of it. Forgetting the [b]'s was genuine, I really did intend to vote in that post. I realized it was not going to make me look good.
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Postby Laika » Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:27 am

When I received first PM about teaming up I had no reasons to trust you more than to anyone else. I thought that it is more safe to presume the worst intention behind the letter, i.e. lowering my suspicion. Who but a wolve would've wanted this ? So, I lied about a toothbrush because I presumed you'd wanted me to use it on an innocent.
Then, I randomly chosen a player who I thought is a wolf (Mas) and who is not (and it was Feud, lol). If you'd told me that it's better to kill Feud, I'd decide that you protect yourself and Mas (wolves) and would step out as a fake seer and claim you two, with some fake proof. I started to doubt however, because I sent a PM to you, and the whole night before I was killed it was lying in Outbox. An active character would be more eager to go online? lol

Little I knew that there are 4 wolves and not 2, and also that seer is killed. Presumptions were total BS, but probably it could've made game a bit more interesting for a non-active me.
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Postby NeatNit » Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:33 am

Laika_rus wrote:When I received first PM about teaming up I had no reasons to trust you more than to anyone else. I thought that it is more safe to presume the worst intention behind the letter, i.e. lowering my suspicion. Who but a wolve would've wanted this ? So, I lied about a toothbrush because I presumed you'd wanted me to use it on an innocent.
Then, I randomly chosen a player who I thought is a wolf (Mas) and who is not (and it was Feud, lol). If you'd told me that it's better to kill Feud, I'd decide that you protect yourself and Mas (wolves) and would step out as a fake seer and claim you two, with some fake proof. I started to doubt however, because I sent a PM to you, and the whole night before I was killed it was lying in Outbox. An active character would be more eager to go online? lol

Little I knew that there are 4 wolves and not 2, and also that seer is killed. Presumptions were total BS, but probably it could've made game a bit more interesting for a non-active me.
What was in that PM? And why did you delete it?

Logging in with my phone is a very painful process. I saw the email notification, but was waiting for a better time to read the PM. I was disappointed when it disappeared.
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Laika
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Postby Laika » Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:41 am

I'll try to rewrite it as I remembered :lol:

Hey friend, I feel I'm in danger. I want to use that toothbrush before I pass.
I am thinking about Feud or Mas Tnega, more about Feud. What do you say ?
I'm scared.


Something like that. I was killed in the 'morning', and this letter 1) was not useful anymore, 2) would seem (just for a moment maybe) like a one from deadman. And technically it would be, I guess. So I thought it would be better to delete it.

I liked how Zjoere was running it. Would welcome another game. Without gangs.
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Postby Ace Rimmer » Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:06 am

*coughtoldyousocough*

:wink:
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Postby zjoere » Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:54 am

ynbniar looked at Ace Rimmer his file btw during the first night. Forgot to mention that earlier.
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Postby koshensky » Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:49 pm

In previous games I've played we tend to get little clues, or discussion points which I feel would have helped give the humans more of a fighting chance, or at least something tangible to discuss during the day.

Not as in "a grumble came from within Koshensky's cell that sounded almost exactly like a wolf's roar" (because that would obviously insight a lynching), however something more like "as the first prisoners woke, they discovered pieces of Ynbniar's body sprayed throughout the cell block. The only piece large enough for them to identify was the bloody stump of his left hand, tightly clutched inside was the head of a key with the end snapped off. The label said "Records Room".

That would have at least made it clear that the wolves had somehow killed the seer, which could have set a whole range of logic in motion to lead back to some wolves. Maybe...

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