US Presidential Election Poll

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Presidential Election '12 Poll

Barack Obama (incumbent) Democrat
31
61%
Mitt Romney - Republican
10
20%
Gary Johnson - Libertarian
1
2%
Jill Stein - Green
3
6%
Ron Paul - Republican (actually Libertarian)
6
12%
Virgil Goode - Constitution
0
No votes
Rocky Anderson - Justice
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 51
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xander
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Postby xander » Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:47 am

"Giving" to a charity in order to make a profit is orthogonal to charitable giving. Anyone who is willing to exploit a charity for their own profit is, as far as I am concerned, immoral. The rest is quibbling about degree.

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Postby Saranis » Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:29 am

I require Donald Duck option!
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Postby ynbniar » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:47 am

The knives are coming out already I see...Chris Christie already being lined up as the fall guy should Romney fail to win the presidency.
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Postby Feud » Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:10 pm

xander wrote:"Giving" to a charity in order to make a profit is orthogonal to charitable giving. Anyone who is willing to exploit a charity for their own profit is, as far as I am concerned, immoral. The rest is quibbling about degree.


What is your definition of "exploiting"? Lots of people "profit" off of charities, and lots of charities profit off of people's desire to charitably give. (We could also get into whether profit is limited to financial gain, but let's keep it a bit more reigned in for now.) What of those who encourage people to give, but they themselves draw a salary from the charity that those donations fund? Is that exploiting the charity?

ynbniar wrote:The knives are coming out already I see...Chris Christie already being lined up as the fall guy should Romney fail to win the presidency.


You don't get to be Governor of New Jersey without knowing how political winds blow. He knew what he was doing when he praised Obama so publicly, and he said so later when asked about it. He wants Romney to win, and if Romney does, Christie will benefit. But Christie also knows Romney might lose, and if he does he'll have to work with Obama. He's covering his bases.
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Postby Cooper42 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:53 am

Well done America. May this rare streak of sanity continue a bit longer.
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Postby Mas Tnega » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:11 am

Hold up. We've got to confirm that the recounts won't matter first. Someone ain't happy about Ohio.
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Postby Xarlaxas » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:38 am

The recounts won't matter, but Romney's free to cry and drag his feet if he wants. . . .
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Postby Feud » Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:31 am

The plus side of this is that now I can continue complaining with impunity.
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Postby zjoere » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:21 am

Apparently Maine aprroved same-sex marriage on the ballot. How did the proposals go in other states?
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Postby Feud » Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:01 pm

zjoere wrote:Apparently Maine aprroved same-sex marriage on the ballot. How did the proposals go in other states?


There were hundreds of proposals and referendums on the ballots nation wide. Any that you're curious about in particular?
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Postby Xarlaxas » Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:20 pm

Supposedly four states approved of it, and two states legalised weed, and Puerto Rico voted to become a state.
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Postby zjoere » Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:44 pm

Feud wrote:
zjoere wrote:Apparently Maine aprroved same-sex marriage on the ballot. How did the proposals go in other states?


There were hundreds of proposals and referendums on the ballots nation wide. Any that you're curious about in particular?


I was inquiring about the same sex marriage proposals. Maybe I should have phrased it better. Do these ballots and proposals always happen together with an election? Are they binding? Are they limited to certain kinds of legislation or can they be used for everything?
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Postby Feud » Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:53 pm

zjoere wrote:I was inquiring about the same sex marriage proposals. Maybe I should have phrased it better. Do these ballots and proposals always happen together with an election? Are they binding? Are they limited to certain kinds of legislation or can they be used for everything?


In answer:

1) Well, voting always happens in an election. But, subject to the State laws concerning elections, referendums and ballot initiatives generally don't have to occur during a Federal/State general election. They occur usually at least once a year, since Federal elections occur every two years, and can happen more often. A restricting issue is cost, so they generally try to bundle them.

2) They are generally binding, but depending upon the state they might be modified by appropriate levels of government, or restricted by the courts if they violate constitutions or have procedural errors.

3) Yes, it is subject to state laws and constitutions. In fact, a state doesn't have to allow ballot issues or voter referendum at all if it does not want to.
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Postby zjoere » Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:39 pm

Thanks for clarification Feud, we lack anything similar in our system so I don't know much about how it works.
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Postby Feud » Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:47 pm

There's two basic types of direct voting items in American politics: ballot initiatives and voter referendums.

Ballot initiatives are generated outside of the legislature, usually by some type of special interest group. It is placed upon the ballot, and if it passes, it becomes statute or amendment without going through the republican legislative process.

Voter referendums are issues that the legislature has turned over to the people to decide, rather than having them be made at the governmental level. Sometimes this is done because of a legal requirement to do so on certain issues, sometimes because they don't want to have the political baggage that would come with making a decision, etc.

Both move the effort from a more republican decision process to a more democratic one. Personally, I am not much in favor of them beyond the municipal level, with rare constitutional exceptions.

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