US Presidential Election Poll

The place to hang out and talk about totally anything general.

Presidential Election '12 Poll

Barack Obama (incumbent) Democrat
31
61%
Mitt Romney - Republican
10
20%
Gary Johnson - Libertarian
1
2%
Jill Stein - Green
3
6%
Ron Paul - Republican (actually Libertarian)
6
12%
Virgil Goode - Constitution
0
No votes
Rocky Anderson - Justice
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 51
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Postby DHKold » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:09 am

Cooper42 wrote:Knowledge production is inherently political. You cannot produce knowledge without being political.

Well, like everything related to citizen. That's the root of the word "politics" :wink:
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Postby Ace Rimmer » Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:45 pm

So, since we're (supposed to be) talking about the Presidential race... How will Sandy and it's aftermath affect the results?
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Postby xander » Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:50 pm

Feud wrote:The guy gives 30% of his income.


http://www.salon.com/2012/10/31/how_rom ... _tax_bill/

xander
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Postby Ace Rimmer » Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:00 pm

Ah, now you're just pulling one story from one tabloid, expecting us to believe them.

:P
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Postby Feud » Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:36 pm

xander wrote:
Feud wrote:The guy gives 30% of his income.


http://www.salon.com/2012/10/31/how_rom ... _tax_bill/


In other words, he neither broke the law nor contributed to the trust in twelves years, during which time he donated tens of millions of dollars to charity.
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Postby xander » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:15 pm

Feud wrote:
xander wrote:
Feud wrote:The guy gives 30% of his income.


http://www.salon.com/2012/10/31/how_rom ... _tax_bill/


In other words, he neither broke the law nor contributed to the trust in twelves years, during which time he donated tens of millions of dollars to charity.

So your notion of moral is "doesn't break the law?"

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Postby Feud » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:48 pm

I did not say that. Do you know something of his motivations, use of the gain from it, or any other material fact that speaks to an immoral purpose? In otherwords, what are you accusing him of, and what is your evidence?
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Postby xander » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:31 pm

Feud wrote:I did not say that. Do you know something of his motivations, use of the gain from it, or any other material fact that speaks to an immoral purpose? In otherwords, what are you accusing him of, and what is your evidence?

You asserted that Romney is a good leader in part because he is a moral person, and claimed as evidence of his morality is charitable giving. Here is an instance where Romney is, on paper, making a charitable donation. However, the mechanism through which he is making this donation profit him more than the charitable organization. This is not the act of an ethical or moral person. It also underlines the very real possibility that the majority of Romney's giving is not done out of strength of character, but out of a avarice.

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Postby AIRburst95 » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:32 pm

Feud wrote:I did not say that. Do you know something of his motivations, use of the gain from it, or any other material fact that speaks to an immoral purpose? In otherwords, what are you accusing him of, and what is your evidence?


What your're doing

What he asked : So your notion of moral is "doesn't break the law?"
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Postby Feud » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:52 pm

xander wrote:
Feud wrote:I did not say that. Do you know something of his motivations, use of the gain from it, or any other material fact that speaks to an immoral purpose? In otherwords, what are you accusing him of, and what is your evidence?

You asserted that Romney is a good leader in part because he is a moral person, and claimed as evidence of his morality is charitable giving. Here is an instance where Romney is, on paper, making a charitable donation. However, the mechanism through which he is making this donation profit him more than the charitable organization. This is not the act of an ethical or moral person. It also underlines the very real possibility that the majority of Romney's giving is not done out of strength of character, but out of a avarice.


One instance of conduct, that is not illegal, and arguably isn't immoral even if it was done for investment and not charitable reasons, does not suggest that a majority of a lifetime of giving is done out of avarice. Numerous people use charitable donations for tax purposes, it's why Salvation Army and virtually every other charity of note will give you a receipt when you donate if you so desire.

AIRburst95 wrote:What your're doing

What he asked : So your notion of moral is "doesn't break the law?"


I answered him, then responded with a question. That's not an ad hominem attack. An ad hominem attack would be me saying that your responses are silly, and demonstrate a lack of understanding of the material and foresight. But I'm not saying that. ;)
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Postby AIRburst95 » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:06 pm

I answered him


Sure you did. Just like the answer to the question "whats 2+2=?" could be "yes"
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Postby Feud » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:13 pm

Not that I agree with that interpretation of what happened, but even if I did, answering "yes" to "what's 2+2" and then asking for clarification of a previous statement is not an ad hominem attack.
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Postby AIRburst95 » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:20 pm

Feud wrote:Not that I agree with that interpretation of what happened, but even if I did, answering "yes" to "what's 2+2" and then asking for clarification of a previous statement is not an ad hominem attack.


"what's 2+2?"

"yes, what evidence do you have that 2+2 equals anything anyway? whats your proof huh?"

This is not an attack on the person himself, however lets replace "yes" with

Xander wrote: So your notion of moral is "doesn't break the law?"


Your Response wrote: I did not say that. Do you know something of his motivations, use of the gain from it, or any other material fact that speaks to an immoral purpose? In otherwords, what are you accusing him of, and what is your evidence?


note how you A didn't answer the question and B attacked his evidence on romneys stance on morality without telling your stance
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Postby Feud » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:31 pm

This is getting funny. :D

First, slow down some, maybe edit a bit.

Next, I did answer his question. I just didn't give the type of answer you wanted. His question was asking about a point I was not making, and one that I have never advocated. I felt no reason to pursue that line of questioning.

Third, attacking evidence is not an ad hominem attack. An ad homminem attack is a personal attack, questioning evidence is fundamental to critical discussion and thought.

Fourth, I've already told my stance on Romney's morality, which xander directly quoted.

Anything else?
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Postby NeatNit » Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:25 am

AIRburst95 wrote:
Feud wrote:Not that I agree with that interpretation of what happened, but even if I did, answering "yes" to "what's 2+2" and then asking for clarification of a previous statement is not an ad hominem attack.


"what's 2+2?"

"yes, what evidence do you have that 2+2 equals anything anyway? whats your proof huh?"

This is not an attack on the person himself, however lets replace "yes" with

Xander wrote: So your notion of moral is "doesn't break the law?"


Your Response wrote: I did not say that. Do you know something of his motivations, use of the gain from it, or any other material fact that speaks to an immoral purpose? In otherwords, what are you accusing him of, and what is your evidence?


note how you A didn't answer the question and B attacked his evidence on romneys stance on morality without telling your stance
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