30 Day War? [Israel vs Iran]

The place to hang out and talk about totally anything general.
User avatar
Feud
level5
level5
Posts: 5149
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Blackacre, VA

Postby Feud » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:21 am

TheGranaryBytes wrote:Just out of curiosity, does anyone think a preemptive strike is the correct move to make?


That entirely depends upon the policy goals a given state wishes to achieve. A "right" move for a given policy goal might be the wrong move for another. Your question is vague.

What policy goals are you suggesting that a pre-emptive strike be used to pursue?
User avatar
AIRburst95
level3
level3
Posts: 408
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:01 am
Location: Seattle(ish), WA

Postby AIRburst95 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:05 am

TheGranaryBytes wrote:
AIRburst95 wrote:
TheGranaryBytes wrote:
AIRburst95 wrote:
I guess the only difference in this case is that Iran actually has WMD's.


Citation?


Image

I don't think hes using those centrifuges for milk :P


I repeat : Citation?


well i suppose its just a hunch.

But when you consider that the president of iran is using P-2 Centrifuges to separate Uranium Hexafluoride into U-235, using the same tools, the same mechanisms, and the same method that A. Q. Khan used to give pakistan the bomb; Then i would say that that hunch is pretty valid...

For instance if you raid a methlab and find out that the methlab was using a method to create meth that was never seen before and break down the whole operation, and then not 10 years later you find the SAME EXACT SETUP for making meth but the people there claim that they are using the lab for "legal medical purposes" would a hunch that they MAY BE using the lab for not so legal purposes *wink wink* be unreasonable?

Its basically the same thing, the only difference being that instead of a methlab its a P-2 Centrifuge facility, and instead of producing meth, its producing highly enriched uranium (using it for what? medical purposes? 0.o.)
User avatar
thedarkknightrises
level1
level1
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:14 pm

Postby thedarkknightrises » Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:58 am

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2012/08 ... g-roberts/

Conspiracy theories have now blossomed into what the smug presstitute media calls a “conspiracy culture.” According to the presstitutes, Americans have to find some explanation for their frustrations and failings, so Americans shift the blame to the Bilderbergers, the Rothschilds, the New World Order and so forth and so on.

Readers will not be surprised that I disagree with the presstitutes. Indeed, the conspiracy culture is the product of the presstitute media’s failure to investigate and to report truthfully. I am certain that the Western media is worse than the Soviet media was. The Soviet media devised ways for helping the public to read between the lines, whereas the Western media is so proud to be confidants of the government that they deliver the propaganda without any clues to the readers that it is propaganda.

Americans have been fed lies by “their” government and the government’s presstitute media for so long that it is not surprising that Americans increasingly believe that there is a conspiracy operating against them. Millions of Americans have been evicted from their jobs, careers, and homes while the crooks who stole from them run free and bankroll the presidential candidates. The world as millions of Americans knew it has come to an end, and no one has been held accountable. The explanation that Americans get from the media is that it is their own fault. They bought houses they shouldn’t have bought, and they didn’t train for the right jobs. It is not unreasonable for Americans to conclude that a conspiracy is operating against them.

Americans are told that “their” government cannot afford to help them because of the budget deficit and the burden on our grandchildren. But Americans see the trillions of dollars that are lavished on banksters, on wars, and on Homeland Security. Why is a police state and another attack on another Muslim country more important than keeping Americans in their jobs and in their homes?

The 11th anniversary of 9/11 is less than a month away. Will the presstitute media remind Americans that the government has spent $6 trillion of Americans’ money in out-of-pocket and already incurred future costs as the expense of invading and trying to occupy Afghanistan and Iraq, all to no effect except to enrich the managements and shareholders of the military security complex at the cost of destroying the reputation of the United States and putting Social Security and Medicare on the chopping block?

No, of course not. The spiel will be about our brave troops who are fighting and dying to make the world safe for democracy and women’s rights. Washington will wrap itself in the flag and exhort Americans to “support our troops” in the orchestrated war of the day. Hitlery Clinton still gets on the moral high horse and rails at China and Russia, but all the world sees is hypocrisy. No one, not even Washington’s puppet governments, any longer takes Washington’s moralizing as anything more than a mask for domination by force alone. Democracy, Washington declares, comes out of the barrel of a gun.

Today moralizing is all about money, but not for the 99%. The 99% cannot find good jobs or earn anything on their savings, because the economy is run for the 1%. University graduates cannot get jobs and pay off their student loans. Retraining for the millions of Americans whose jobs were shipped offshore or filled by foreigners brought in on H1-B visas has proved to be a fraud, as there are no jobs for the retrained displaced long-term discouraged American work force. The official jobs projection by the US government is that few university graduates are needed in the work force, so the old mantra that “education is the answer” is just another lie from the Ivy League economic departments who sell the establishment’s lies for money.

Any American citizen accustomed to travel America’s “wide open spaces” prior to 9/11 must be astonished by the sudden rise of the intrusive Homeland Security, a gestapo-sounding name if there ever was one. Porno-scans and genital feel-ups have spread from airports to bus and train stations and to the public highways, despite the absence of terrorist events. No one in their right mind could possibly think that a 90-year old grandmother in a wheel chair is a terrorist whose diaper needs to be checked or that blond and blue-eyed parents would have strapped a bomb around their 5-year old daughter’s waist. No one except the gestapo Department of Homeland Security.

Even some of the gullible flag-waving patriotic conservatives are beginning to wonder about all the security. The reports that the Department of Homeland Security has ordered 750 million rounds of people-killing ammunition are puzzling even those conservatives who have been taking vicarious pleasure in the slaughter of “towelheads.”

Why does the Department of Homeland Security need enough ammunition to shoot every American 2.5 times? Why is Homeland Security equipping itself with full-body armor? Why is Homeland Security acquiring new laser technology that can “instantly know everything about you from 164 feet away?” A new army manual for “Civil Disturbance Operations” describes how the military is to be used domestically within the US to put down protests, confiscate firearms and kill citizens.

The police state that is being constructed in “freedom and democracy” America is without parallel in history. When the only terrorists are dupes organized by the FBI, it is clear that the purpose of the police state is not to protect Americans from Muslim terrorists. The purpose of the police state is to terrorize US citizens.

It is not only Homeland Security that is being militarized. The government reported that a large ammunition order was made by the National Weather Service, later updated to have been the Fisheries Office. If you are surprised at this, why has the Social Security Administration ordered 174,000 rounds of hollow-point bullets?


Lists of Homeland Security’s ammunition order are available online. Clearly, it is not ammunition for target practice. It is ammunition for killing people: hollow-point bullets for the military rifle, the M-16. Match grade bullets for .308 sniper rifles. 12 gauge shotgun buckshot and slug ammunition. Hollow-point bullets for .357 magnum and .40 caliber pistols.

As there have been no terrorist attacks in the US since the 9/11 attack (itself suspect by experts), except for those organized by the FBI, this massive purchase of firepower is obviously not to protect Americans from Muslim terrorists. So what is it for?

Perhaps this film explains what is in store for the American people who trusted “their” government. War protestors and critics of the government are being redefined as “domestic extremists” who can be arrested for aiding and abetting the enemies of the United States. If Americans wake up to the fact that they are being dispossessed economically, politically, and socially, while Washington is leading them into World War III, and take to the streets in protest, they will encounter extreme military force.

The liberal-left is even more delusional than the flag-waving conservatives. No matter what the government does, conservatives will come down on the government’s side. This is because conservatives confuse patriotism with support for the government, not with defense of the Constitution, a suspect document that coddles criminals, terrorists, and war protesters who cause America to lose wars. The liberal-left regards Obama with his half-black origin as a member of the oppressed class, personages endowed by the liberal-left with higher morality. The liberal-left continues to regard Obama as the redeemer even as Obama sits in the Oval Office approving lists of American citizens to be executed without due process of law. Not even Naomi Wolf can wake up the liberal-left.

Do not expect Congress or the presstitutes to do anything about the rapid concentration of power in the police state that Bush and Obama have created. Do not expect to be rescued by federal courts. Even if some judges are inclined to defend the Constitution from its domestic enemy, the courts are powerless if the executive branch does not respect the rule of law. Currently, the executive branch is ignoring a federal judge’s injunction against the indefinite detention of US citizens. The Department of Justice (sic) lawyers will not even answer the judge’s questions.

A gullible population is helpless if government decides to enslave the people. It is child’s play for government to discredit a people’s natural leaders and those who provide the people with accurate information. Most Americans have a very small knowledge base and very large ideological preconceptions. Consequently, they cannot tell fiction from fact.

Consider the case of Julian Assange. When the US government, angry that WikiLeaks had published leaked documents that revealed the mendacity and deceit of Washington, first struck out at Assange, support for Assange was almost universal. Then Washington put out the story on the Internet that Assange was an intelligence agent working for the CIA or the even more hateful Mossad. Both leftwing and rightwing Internet sites fell for the obvious lie. Here we have gullibility on the level with those who believed Stalin’s charge that Bukharin was a capitalist agent.

Once the libel of Assange began, it over-rode his clearance by the Swedish prosecutor’s office of sexual complaints made by the two women who seduced him. Seeing Assange on the ropes, a female prosecutor reopened the closed case, many believe at Washington’s urging. Feminists jumped in, demanding that Assange be punished for his seduction by women as he had obviously tricked or coerced them in some way.

It was like Dominique Strauss-Kahn all over again. Falsely accused of sexually assaulting a New York hotel maid, the Director of the International Monetary Fund, chased on two continents by celebrity-hunting women, was knocked out of the race for the French presidency and had to resign his IMF position. The New York police, trained by decades of feminist propaganda to regard every sex charge brought by a woman as the absolute truth, were made to look foolish and incompetent when clear evidence emerged that the charge was fabricated in order to extract money from Strauss-Kahn and possibly in order to knock him out of contention for the French presidency.

Many websites and normally reliable commentators were taken in by the false story. The Washington hegemons and their presstitute media have been even more successful in fooling Americans about terrorist attacks, Osama bin Laden, the Taliban, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Yemen, Pakistan, Syria, and Iran. What is astonishing is the fact that there have not been any attacks on America, despite the enormous provocations Washington has provided by murdering as many as one million Muslims, destroying three Muslim countries, conducting military operations against seven Muslim countries and preparing an attack on an eighth–Iran.

The President of Russia, whose thermo-nuclear ballistic missiles can remove the US from the face of the earth, stated for all the world to hear that Washington has the entire world in fear of its hegemonic drive. “No one feels safe,” said Putin. And certainly not the Russians with American missile bases on their borders and a Washington-funded disloyal and traitorous political “opposition” which serves as Washington’s fifth column inside Russia.

America, Putin acknowledged, wants to rule the world. But Washington is not going to rule Russia and China. If the current White House moron keeps his promise to Israeli prime minister Netanyahu that the US will attack Iran next June if Iran does not close down its nuclear energy program (a non-weapons program permitted to Iran as a signatory of the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty), the White House will have opened the door to World War III. In such a war the US would not be immune from attack as it was in WW I and WW II. This time America could disappear in nuclear holocaust. If any of the world survives, people will be thankful for Washington’s removal from the scene.

Death is what “your” government in Washington, both Republicans and Democrats, are bringing you. Both parties are driven by the neoconservatives who believe that American hegemony over the world is worth nuclear war to accomplish. If these dangerous ideologues continue to prevail, life on earth has a very short-run prospect.
Last edited by thedarkknightrises on Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
AIRburst95
level3
level3
Posts: 408
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:01 am
Location: Seattle(ish), WA

Postby AIRburst95 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:02 am

thedarkknightrises wrote:http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2012/08/20/amerikas-future-death-paul-craig-roberts/

Conspiracy theories have now blossomed into what the smug presstitute media calls a “conspiracy culture.” According to the presstitutes, Americans have to find some explanation for their frustrations and failings, so Americans shift the blame to the Bilderbergers, the Rothschilds, the New World Order and so forth and so on.

Readers will not be surprised that I disagree with the presstitutes. Indeed, the conspiracy culture is the product of the presstitute media’s failure to investigate and to report truthfully. I am certain that the Western media is worse than the Soviet media was. The Soviet media devised ways for helping the public to read between the lines, whereas the Western media is so proud to be confidants of the government that they deliver the propaganda without any clues to the readers that it is propaganda.

Americans have been fed lies by “their” government and the government’s presstitute media for so long that it is not surprising that Americans increasingly believe that there is a conspiracy operating against them. Millions of Americans have been evicted from their jobs, careers, and homes while the crooks who stole from them run free and bankroll the presidential candidates. The world as millions of Americans knew it has come to an end, and no one has been held accountable. The explanation that Americans get from the media is that it is their own fault. They bought houses they shouldn’t have bought, and they didn’t train for the right jobs. It is not unreasonable for Americans to conclude that a conspiracy is operating against them.

Americans are told that “their” government cannot afford to help them because of the budget deficit and the burden on our grandchildren. But Americans see the trillions of dollars that are lavished on banksters, on wars, and on Homeland Security. Why is a police state and another attack on another Muslim country more important than keeping Americans in their jobs and in their homes?

The 11th anniversary of 9/11 is less than a month away. Will the presstitute media remind Americans that the government has spent $6 trillion of Americans’ money in out-of-pocket and already incurred future costs as the expense of invading and trying to occupy Afghanistan and Iraq, all to no effect except to enrich the managements and shareholders of the military security complex at the cost of destroying the reputation of the United States and putting Social Security and Medicare on the chopping block?

No, of course not. The spiel will be about our brave troops who are fighting and dying to make the world safe for democracy and women’s rights. Washington will wrap itself in the flag and exhort Americans to “support our troops” in the orchestrated war of the day. Hitlery Clinton still gets on the moral high horse and rails at China and Russia, but all the world sees is hypocrisy. No one, not even Washington’s puppet governments, any longer takes Washington’s moralizing as anything more than a mask for domination by force alone. Democracy, Washington declares, comes out of the barrel of a gun.

Today moralizing is all about money, but not for the 99%. The 99% cannot find good jobs or earn anything on their savings, because the economy is run for the 1%. University graduates cannot get jobs and pay off their student loans. Retraining for the millions of Americans whose jobs were shipped offshore or filled by foreigners brought in on H1-B visas has proved to be a fraud, as there are no jobs for the retrained displaced long-term discouraged American work force. The official jobs projection by the US government is that few university graduates are needed in the work force, so the old mantra that “education is the answer” is just another lie from the Ivy League economic departments who sell the establishment’s lies for money.

Any American citizen accustomed to travel America’s “wide open spaces” prior to 9/11 must be astonished by the sudden rise of the intrusive Homeland Security, a gestapo-sounding name if there ever was one. Porno-scans and genital feel-ups have spread from airports to bus and train stations and to the public highways, despite the absence of terrorist events. No one in their right mind could possibly think that a 90-year old grandmother in a wheel chair is a terrorist whose diaper needs to be checked or that blond and blue-eyed parents would have strapped a bomb around their 5-year old daughter’s waist. No one except the gestapo Department of Homeland Security.

Even some of the gullible flag-waving patriotic conservatives are beginning to wonder about all the security. The reports that the Department of Homeland Security has ordered 750 million rounds of people-killing ammunition are puzzling even those conservatives who have been taking vicarious pleasure in the slaughter of “towelheads.”

Why does the Department of Homeland Security need enough ammunition to shoot every American 2.5 times? Why is Homeland Security equipping itself with full-body armor? Why is Homeland Security acquiring new laser technology that can “instantly know everything about you from 164 feet away?” A new army manual for “Civil Disturbance Operations” describes how the military is to be used domestically within the US to put down protests, confiscate firearms and kill citizens.

The police state that is being constructed in “freedom and democracy” America is without parallel in history. When the only terrorists are dupes organized by the FBI, it is clear that the purpose of the police state is not to protect Americans from Muslim terrorists. The purpose of the police state is to terrorize US citizens.

It is not only Homeland Security that is being militarized. The government reported that a large ammunition order was made by the National Weather Service, later updated to have been the Fisheries Office. If you are surprised at this, why has the Social Security Administration ordered 174,000 rounds of hollow-point bullets?


Lists of Homeland Security’s ammunition order are available online. Clearly, it is not ammunition for target practice. It is ammunition for killing people: hollow-point bullets for the military rifle, the M-16. Match grade bullets for .308 sniper rifles. 12 gauge shotgun buckshot and slug ammunition. Hollow-point bullets for .357 magnum and .40 caliber pistols.

As there have been no terrorist attacks in the US since the 9/11 attack (itself suspect by experts), except for those organized by the FBI, this massive purchase of firepower is obviously not to protect Americans from Muslim terrorists. So what is it for?

Perhaps this film explains what is in store for the American people who trusted “their” government. War protestors and critics of the government are being redefined as “domestic extremists” who can be arrested for aiding and abetting the enemies of the United States. If Americans wake up to the fact that they are being dispossessed economically, politically, and socially, while Washington is leading them into World War III, and take to the streets in protest, they will encounter extreme military force.

The liberal-left is even more delusional than the flag-waving conservatives. No matter what the government does, conservatives will come down on the government’s side. This is because conservatives confuse patriotism with support for the government, not with defense of the Constitution, a suspect document that coddles criminals, terrorists, and war protesters who cause America to lose wars. The liberal-left regards Obama with his half-black origin as a member of the oppressed class, personages endowed by the liberal-left with higher morality. The liberal-left continues to regard Obama as the redeemer even as Obama sits in the Oval Office approving lists of American citizens to be executed without due process of law. Not even Naomi Wolf can wake up the liberal-left.

Do not expect Congress or the presstitutes to do anything about the rapid concentration of power in the police state that Bush and Obama have created. Do not expect to be rescued by federal courts. Even if some judges are inclined to defend the Constitution from its domestic enemy, the courts are powerless if the executive branch does not respect the rule of law. Currently, the executive branch is ignoring a federal judge’s injunction against the indefinite detention of US citizens. The Department of Justice (sic) lawyers will not even answer the judge’s questions.

A gullible population is helpless if government decides to enslave the people. It is child’s play for government to discredit a people’s natural leaders and those who provide the people with accurate information. Most Americans have a very small knowledge base and very large ideological preconceptions. Consequently, they cannot tell fiction from fact.

Consider the case of Julian Assange. When the US government, angry that WikiLeaks had published leaked documents that revealed the mendacity and deceit of Washington, first struck out at Assange, support for Assange was almost universal. Then Washington put out the story on the Internet that Assange was an intelligence agent working for the CIA or the even more hateful Mossad. Both leftwing and rightwing Internet sites fell for the obvious lie. Here we have gullibility on the level with those who believed Stalin’s charge that Bukharin was a capitalist agent.

Once the libel of Assange began, it over-rode his clearance by the Swedish prosecutor’s office of sexual complaints made by the two women who seduced him. Seeing Assange on the ropes, a female prosecutor reopened the closed case, many believe at Washington’s urging. Feminists jumped in, demanding that Assange be punished for his seduction by women as he had obviously tricked or coerced them in some way.

It was like Dominique Strauss-Kahn all over again. Falsely accused of sexually assaulting a New York hotel maid, the Director of the International Monetary Fund, chased on two continents by celebrity-hunting women, was knocked out of the race for the French presidency and had to resign his IMF position. The New York police, trained by decades of feminist propaganda to regard every sex charge brought by a woman as the absolute truth, were made to look foolish and incompetent when clear evidence emerged that the charge was fabricated in order to extract money from Strauss-Kahn and possibly in order to knock him out of contention for the French presidency.

Many websites and normally reliable commentators were taken in by the false story. The Washington hegemons and their presstitute media have been even more successful in fooling Americans about terrorist attacks, Osama bin Laden, the Taliban, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Yemen, Pakistan, Syria, and Iran. What is astonishing is the fact that there have not been any attacks on America, despite the enormous provocations Washington has provided by murdering as many as one million Muslims, destroying three Muslim countries, conducting military operations against seven Muslim countries and preparing an attack on an eighth–Iran.

The President of Russia, whose thermo-nuclear ballistic missiles can remove the US from the face of the earth, stated for all the world to hear that Washington has the entire world in fear of its hegemonic drive. “No one feels safe,” said Putin. And certainly not the Russians with American missile bases on their borders and a Washington-funded disloyal and traitorous political “opposition” which serves as Washington’s fifth column inside Russia.

America, Putin acknowledged, wants to rule the world. But Washington is not going to rule Russia and China. If the current White House moron keeps his promise to Israeli prime minister Netanyahu that the US will attack Iran next June if Iran does not close down its nuclear energy program (a non-weapons program permitted to Iran as a signatory of the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty), the White House will have opened the door to World War III. In such a war the US would not be immune from attack as it was in WW I and WW II. This time America could disappear in nuclear holocaust. If any of the world survives, people will be thankful for Washington’s removal from the scene.

Death is what “your” government in Washington, both Republicans and Democrats, are bringing you. Both parties are driven by the neoconservatives who believe that American hegemony over the world is worth nuclear war to accomplish. If these dangerous ideologues continue to prevail, life on earth has a very short-run prospect.


can you condense that into a short and clear paragraph? im not reading that entire thing
Jordy...
level5
level5
Posts: 2367
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:57 pm

Postby Jordy... » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:50 am

Yea.. sorry I am too lazy as well to read the entire thing, but the first paragraph started off good!
Cuz fuck logic
User avatar
Laika
level5
level5
Posts: 1499
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:16 pm
Location: Moscow

Postby Laika » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:06 am

AIRburst95 wrote:
how does a leg-up in electronic warfare have anything to do with there being a second Yom Kippur War?


Nohow. What is connection between attacking on holy day for many Israelis and what there is now ?

edit

The Soviet media devised ways for helping the public to read between the lines


I never heard about any soviet major media doing this, at least before Gorbachev. Any sources ?

Speaking of Egypt, what is probability that they will enter the war ?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/22/world ... ml?_r=1&hp
User avatar
Ace Rimmer
level5
level5
Posts: 10803
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:46 pm
Location: The Multiverse

Postby Ace Rimmer » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:26 pm

tl;dr also.

Laika_rus, the enemy of my enemy? Although Iranians are not Arabs, they do share religous ties (Sunni/Shiite), so that's a factor (vs. non-muslim 'Jews'). However, I've heard many officials from Isreal and the U.S. (e.g. former Israeli ambassador to China) state that the Arab nations do not want Iran to have nuclear weapons.

So, you've got the age old anti-peace mentality us vs you (Arab vs Jew) that will never be solved with diplomacy, doesn't matter if it's Carter, Clinton, Obama, or any other human being on the planet, semi competeing with the much newer nuke vs non-nuke (Arab vs Persian). In short, I think Egypt coming into a fight comes down to which 'wrong' do they want to correct the most; Israel being a strong neighbor, or Ahmadinejad with an itchy trigger finger and more than willing (apparently) to use them (nukes) to wipe Israel off the map. (and then of course turning its attention towards dominating the Middle East with nukes)
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast...
User avatar
Xarlaxas
level5
level5
Posts: 1525
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:48 pm
Location: Edinburgh
Contact:

Postby Xarlaxas » Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:04 pm

There's also this little thing that any *sane* world leaders would have to consider when it comes to Iran: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strait_of_Hormuz

If there was a war against Iran to destroy its nuclear program they would close the strait, then you'd need to occupy that territory yourself, which lengthens the conflict indefinitely, then there's response by Hezbollah as well. . . .
User avatar
rus|Mike
level5
level5
Posts: 2750
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:52 pm
Location: Russia, St. Petersburg

Postby rus|Mike » Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:30 pm

I bet on military action and don't see what Israel is waiting for.
TheGranaryBytes wrote:Just out of curiosity, does anyone think a preemptive strike is the correct move to make?

Sure, if you weight the alternatives. One is to swallow the fact that Iran will possess nuclear weapons, another is to preemptively destroy their capacity to produce them in a quick strike. Israel military has proven itself capable of executing such operations on multiple occasions, so military side of the question is not going to be a problem. That leaves only diplomatic side. I'm sure the world leaders will condemn Israel actions but when the cameras are off they will cheer to the fact that another major and sensitive problem was solved without them taking part. They will hardly take any serious actions to "punish" Israel.

Nobody wants a monkey with a grenade, especially in Middle East.

Xarlaxas wrote:If there was a war against Iran to destroy its nuclear program they would close the strait

For how long? 1 day? 2? And Iran knows that if it *tries* to close the strait, that will automatically bring the conflict to a new level and they will suffer much more.
User avatar
Ace Rimmer
level5
level5
Posts: 10803
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:46 pm
Location: The Multiverse

Postby Ace Rimmer » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:08 pm

Xarlaxas wrote:If there was a war against Iran to destroy its nuclear program they would close the strait

For how long? 1 day? 2? And Iran knows that if it *tries* to close the strait, that will automatically bring the conflict to a new level and they will suffer much more.[/quote]

I aggree. One thing that would certainly put the U.S. public behind any war regardless of what any other country said would be gas prices. :P

We have a fire at a refinery and all of a sudden there's a rush and 'shortages' (yeah, right). I can only imagine what kind of chaos we'd have at the pumps if the Strait was closed.
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast...
User avatar
rus|Mike
level5
level5
Posts: 2750
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:52 pm
Location: Russia, St. Petersburg

Postby rus|Mike » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:58 pm

Well, the chaos you are going to have will hardly stop Israel from anything :P
User avatar
Ace Rimmer
level5
level5
Posts: 10803
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:46 pm
Location: The Multiverse

Postby Ace Rimmer » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:16 pm

I think maybe you misunderstood, or I am minunderstanding you.

Us fat, lazy, short-attention spanned Americans would do it for Israel is Iran closed the Strait and it caused chaos here. :P
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast...
User avatar
Xarlaxas
level5
level5
Posts: 1525
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:48 pm
Location: Edinburgh
Contact:

Postby Xarlaxas » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:23 pm

I imagine that the strait would be relatively quickly *taken* by invading forces if they put their minds to it, but then how long would they have to stay until it was again "permanently" open? Until the entire Iranian military is dismantled? Until every able-bodied man is dead? Iraq and Afghanistan show that America and its Western allies aren't all that well equipped against a prolonged asymmetrical conflict, which is what it would turn into, so, really, the best option is to just not go there and resolve the situation without military means.

They were talking about it on the Radio just today about how gas prices could go up around 400% at least as soon as news of the strait being closed gets out, I don't think a president wants to be responsible for that, especially with an election coming up. . . .
User avatar
rus|Mike
level5
level5
Posts: 2750
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:52 pm
Location: Russia, St. Petersburg

Postby rus|Mike » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:31 pm

Ace Rimmer
Oh, ok :)

Xarlaxas
It's arguably true but then again, it is Israel that will take decision, USA can only hope for as much as beforehand warning about the operation, not on a deciding vote about if it happens or not.
User avatar
Xarlaxas
level5
level5
Posts: 1525
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:48 pm
Location: Edinburgh
Contact:

Postby Xarlaxas » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:42 pm

Then it will be up to the Israelis to hold the strait! And if they choose not to then the Americans would be hella pissed. I think that Israel might not want to alienate the US. . . .

Of course, if Romney were elected they'd probably support it, no matter how short-sighted and insane an option that would be!

Return to “Introversion Lounge”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 24 guests