Open letter to Chris Delay about Prison Archetype

The place to hang out and talk about totally anything general.

Will you pay for pre-order and/or alpha testing?

Yes
14
88%
No
2
13%
 
Total votes: 16
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Xocrates
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Postby Xocrates » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:18 pm

xander wrote:Minecraft seems to have a persistent world

Well, not really. Servers are persistent, but they're player run and only those visiting that server have access to that persistent world, in effect it's only more persistent than the single player if there are people constantly on the server.
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Postby xander » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:22 pm

Xocrates wrote:
xander wrote:Minecraft seems to have a persistent world

Well, not really. Servers are persistent, but they're player run and only those visiting that server have access to that persistent world, in effect it's only more persistent than the single player if there are people constantly on the server.

Yeah, I could have been more clear about that in my comments. Let me fix that:

xander, if he were writing more clearly wrote:Minecraft seems to have persistent worlds.


There is not one overarching persistent world, but any player can create a persistent world in which several other players can interact. Given that IV is only two people at this point, this seems about the best that you could ask for in terms of persistence.

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Postby Jordy... » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:33 pm

Yea, let me clarify, anything to add replay value as Flow mentioned, being it a online semi-persistent prison, or content-sharing like you earlier suggested.. Something that will help built a community and add a ton of replay value, because the campaign seems more to be a tutorial and a decent story and sandbox won't keep most people busy forever, so I think it's important to think of something in this direction.
Cuz fuck logic
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Postby Xocrates » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:34 pm

xander wrote:There is not one overarching persistent world, but any player can create a persistent world in which several other players can interact. Given that IV is only two people at this point, this seems about the best that you could ask for in terms of persistence.

True.

Though a better question would be how persistence would even work in the context of PA. The ability to visit friends prisons seems to negligible to justify an always online requirement, and having events occur (like a fight or a prison break) while the player is absent doesn't seem like the best design decision in the world.
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Postby OpenFlow » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:44 pm

Xocrates wrote:
xander wrote:There is not one overarching persistent world, but any player can create a persistent world in which several other players can interact. Given that IV is only two people at this point, this seems about the best that you could ask for in terms of persistence.

True.

Though a better question would be how persistence would even work in the context of PA. The ability to visit friends prisons seems to negligible to justify an always online requirement, and having events occur (like a fight or a prison break) while the player is absent doesn't seem like the best design decision in the world.


What about snapshots, versioning and multi-branch universes? Just think, PA - Higgs Boson Edition.

Each player has a persistent time-line per game that get reintegrated upon sync. Sort of like time travel and resolving temporal paradoxes.


Also, it is 2012. Get with the times. Always online is not big deal or an unreasonable requirement.


Within the context of a persistent Metaworld there can be subworlds... Friends can lend virtual currency to others... say I'm expanding my prison but I don't have the money... and I can't cheat.... so I can borrow from someone.... someone who already has a pretty good system up and running and wants to earn interest on that money.... and IV is the federal reserve. IV can lower prime interest rate and create quantitative easings when the meta economy isn't doing all that hot.
Last edited by OpenFlow on Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Xocrates » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:49 pm

OpenFlow wrote:Also, it is 2012. Get with the times. Always online is not big deal or an unreasonable requirement.

Considering I just spent nearly a week with very limited internet or none at all, and being able to game offline was the only thing preventing me from going postal, I'm going to politely disagree and say that's a load of bullshit.
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Postby xander » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:50 pm

Xocrates wrote:
xander wrote:There is not one overarching persistent world, but any player can create a persistent world in which several other players can interact. Given that IV is only two people at this point, this seems about the best that you could ask for in terms of persistence.

True.

Though a better question would be how persistence would even work in the context of PA. The ability to visit friends prisons seems to negligible to justify an always online requirement, and having events occur (like a fight or a prison break) while the player is absent doesn't seem like the best design decision in the world.

Yeah, I wasn't even trying to examine the gameplay that would require an online presence. Do any of the early SimCity games have an online/multiplayer component? If so, how do they implement it? What is the advantage of being online?

For my money, I would much prefer a solid single player campaign plus sandbox to a ghost town of an online experience. Get the single player game right, and only if there is a good reason to, add a multiplayer component later.

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Postby OpenFlow » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:51 pm

Xocrates wrote:
OpenFlow wrote:Also, it is 2012. Get with the times. Always online is not big deal or an unreasonable requirement.

Considering I just spent nearly a week with very limited internet or none at all, and being able to game offline was the only thing preventing me from going postal, I'm going to politely disagree and say that's a load of bullshit.


Your one anecdotal case is hardly statistically significant in representing the aggregate average and general trends at large. The BGP and the OpenFlow and everyone else do not have Internets problems.
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Postby xander » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:53 pm

OpenFlow wrote:Also, it is 2012. Get with the times. Always online is not big deal or an unreasonable requirement.

Yes, it is. I don't want to play a game that requires that I be online. Especially if the experience is basically single player.


OpenFlow wrote:Within the context of a persistent Metaworld there can be subworlds... Friends can lend virtual currency to others... say I'm expanding my prison but I don't have the money... and I can't cheat.... so I can borrow from someone.... someone who already has a pretty good system up and running and wants to earn interest on that money.... and IV is the federal reserve. IV can lower prime interest rate and create quantitative easings when the meta economy isn't doing all that hot.

You complain that cheating is going to be a problem in a single player game, yet you want to create a game experience that opens up a whole slew of new ways to cheat? I mean, if Blizzard can't get it right, what makes you think that IV can?

OpenFlow wrote:Your one anecdotal case is hardly statistically significant in representing the aggregate average and general trends at large. The BGP and the OpenFlow and everyone else do not have Internets problems.

Your anecdote does not trump Xocrate's. Since you are arguing that noone is going to object to online-required, can you please cite some data supporting your point of view? Are there any data at all?

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Postby Xocrates » Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:00 pm

xander wrote:Yeah, I wasn't even trying to examine the gameplay that would require an online presence. Do any of the early SimCity games have an online/multiplayer component? If so, how do they implement it? What is the advantage of being online?

The upcoming Simcity is supposed to, but that's a bit far away and there's already a load of discussion surrounding it. Simcity 4 I don't think had multiplayer, but had the Region system which allowed neighbouring cities to trade resources (water and electricity mostly, but people of one city could also live in one city and work in another).

I think the original Cities XL had an online mode that allowed similar things, but that one got closed fairly fast.


xander wrote:For my money, I would much prefer a solid single player campaign plus sandbox to a ghost town of an online experience. Get the single player game right, and only if there is a good reason to, add a multiplayer component later.

Seconded on the single player and sandbox part, but I disagree that shoving in a multiplayer after the game is done is a good tactic. Either they design all game modes as a whole from the start or quite frankly I think it would be preferable for them to do two different games.
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Postby OpenFlow » Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:01 pm

The bottom line, is its about the bottom line.

After getting gameplay nailed, what can IV do to maximize revenue streams so they can continue to develop future indie games?
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Postby Xocrates » Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:06 pm

OpenFlow wrote:After getting gameplay nailed, what can IV do to maximize revenue streams so they can continue to develop future indie games?

*cough*

And they did that without selling their souls to the devil and alienating half their userbase. Imagine that.
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Postby MikeTheWookiee » Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:12 am

\o Hi shinygerbil. I was reminded about Defcon today, so thought I'd stop by here today. Then when I see such crap I couldn't help myself. And to make this relevant:
OpenFlow wrote:Also, it is 2012. Get with the times. Always online is not big deal or an unreasonable requirement.
Were you paying attention at all when Diablo 3 came out? And has been mentioned, if a company with the resources, manpower, and cash of Blizzard can't get it right, what chance do IV have?

Now some of the stuff you suggest does certainly sound marvellous, but a lot of that would be incredibly expensive to make happen, would require constant maintenance and attention, and be very difficult to get right. You can't compete with Farmville, so don't. Do something else - be different.

And on DRM, remember that this is the company that put its own game on tpb et al with working keys to get it out there and into the world and to keep the metaserver busy. One feels that as long as they sell enough copies to eat they'll carry on making games.
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Postby OpenFlow » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:11 am

MikeTheWookiee wrote:
And on DRM, remember that this is the company that put its own game on tpb et al with working keys to get it out there and into the world and to keep the metaserver busy. One feels that as long as they sell enough copies to eat they'll carry on making games.


If by tbp you are indeed referencing to "the pirate bay" then that is absolutely a false statement. Introversion did no such thing.
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Postby SpitJock » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:16 am

OpenFlow wrote: The BGP and the OpenFlow


Habitually referring to oneself in the third person is often an indicator of dissociative identity disorder. Particularly so in this case, given that it's clear that "The BGP" and "The OpenFlow" are the same person. Perhaps a sensible course of action would be to desist in trolling these forums and try somewhere more appropriate, like here: http://www.psychforums.com/dissociative-identity/

OpenFlow wrote:and everyone else do not have Internets problems.


Incorrect. Most home internet users experience both intermittent and ongoing connectivity issues at some point(s) in their online lives. If this were not the case, a significant proportion of the IT support sector would need to find other employment. The fact that The BGP/The OpenFlow/Whoever-else-you-think-you-are doesn't suffer such problems is simply our misfortune...

SJ

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