Open letter to Chris Delay about Prison Archetype

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Will you pay for pre-order and/or alpha testing?

Yes
14
88%
No
2
13%
 
Total votes: 16
OpenFlow
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Postby OpenFlow » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:48 pm

Laika_rus wrote:Image



These strategies and tactics are not scale-invariant. IV can get away with things that larger companies cannot. It is structurally different at different stages and sizes. There is no blanket umbrella rule or broad categorical stroke that says "freemium is better" or "micro-payments is worse"... it is situational, depends on the target audience, the market segment, the companies strategic vision, its competitive advantages and how all of those elements fits in to its short and long term business model plans.
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Postby xander » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:48 pm

OpenFlow wrote:Cause if I was Chris...

Stop right there. You aren't Chris. Now stop trolling.

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Postby OpenFlow » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:51 pm

xander wrote:
OpenFlow wrote:Cause if I was Chris...

Stop right there. You aren't Chris. Now stop trolling.

xander



You are an extreme alarmist that exploits and misuses the blanket umbrella term of trolling as pretext an guise to silence discussion, to censor topics, to create a chilling effect whereby debate and viewpoints not in alignment with your own narrow prejudiced views of the world are automatically stifled.
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Postby Feud » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:55 pm

OpenFlow wrote:There is no blanket umbrella rule or broad categorical stroke that says "freemium is better" or "micro-payments is worse"... it is situational, depends on the target audience, the market segment, the companies strategic vision, its competitive advantages and how all of those elements fits in to its short and long term business model plans.


And yet, you present your arguments as a blanket solution that they must do, despite not knowing what their target audience is, what thier strategic vision is, or what their long term business plans are.
Last edited by Feud on Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby MikeTheWookiee » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:57 pm

Seems to me like you want IV to make Farmville but set in a prison, obviously playing the role of the chairman of G4S instead of a farmer. Yeah, there's the possibility of them making scads of money doing that, but at what cost?
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Postby OpenFlow » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:58 pm

Feud wrote:
OpenFlow wrote:There is no blanket umbrella rule or broad categorical stroke that says "freemium is better" or "micro-payments is worse"... it is situational, depends on the target audience, the market segment, the companies strategic vision, its competitive advantages and how all of those elements fits in to its short and long term business model plans.


And yet, you present your arguments as a blanket solution that they must do, despite not knowing what their target audience is, what thier strategic vision is, or what their long term business plans are.



I have simply expressed my viewpoint. I did not, and cannot say that MUST do anything. Obviously they don't have to listen to my feedback or opinions.
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Postby Feud » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:02 pm

OpenFlow wrote:You are an extreme alarmist that exploits and misuses the blanket umbrella term of trolling as pretext an guise to silence discussion, to censor topics, to create a chilling effect whereby debate and viewpoints not in alignment with your own narrow prejudiced views of the world are automatically stifled.


This is just ignorant.

On this forum there's been extensive, passioned debates about inflamatory issues, without xander or anyone else accusing the others of trolling. Heck, I think his wife even suggested I was racist once in a debate about abortion or welfare (don't remember exactly what she said, something along the lines of my view being "white" and sheltered).

In regards to both IV and the forums, you seem to need to do more homework.

By the way, somehow in your 16 edits of your OP you've managed to hurt your own argument even more. That's aquite a feat. Here's one part that you added that I find amusing:

OpenFlow wrote:update: As a single player game, replay value and longevity hinges on the fact that the user is continuously challenged in a rewarding manner. Letting him easily cheat (whether by means of developer enabled cheats or memhacks, etc) will seriously erode the longevity aspect of the game. As a result that diminished the perceived value of your game. Meaning you will likely sell less copies and each of those units will provide less profit margins. This will not benefit IV in any way. I'm sure we've all cheated in games like the Sims before. I don't know about most people, but for me when the money is easy I immediately get bored and stop playing. Preventing single player cheating is helping preserve the value and longevity of the PA game... and helping the gamers help themselves a favor. Trust me, I know a thing or two about cheating.


It's very funny, to me at least, that you talk about how allowing cheating will hurt the longevity of the game, while using The Sims as your example. The Sims as a series has sold over 125 million units, with revenues in the billions of dollars. If that's diminished value, then a few customers didn't get the memo. ;)
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Postby Mas Tnega » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:05 pm

OpenFlow wrote:You are an extreme alarmist that exploits and misuses the blanket umbrella term of trolling as pretext an guise to silence discussion, to censor topics, to create a chilling effect whereby debate and viewpoints not in alignment with your own narrow prejudiced views of the world are automatically stifled.
You on the other hand, are talking bollocks.

You say "Cheating will ruin Prison Architect's longevity": Making no assumptions about whatever marketing ploy you think is being employed, explain how. Your The Sims example doesn't wash with me. I enjoyed building a moat that only the magical teleporting social worker could cross. I thought deleting the trash was awesomely convenient. Without being able to reach the carpool to get to work with that damned moat in the way, they really needed that money to sort of insinuate itself into their back account. The reason why you stopped playing is because you forgot the basic concept of "Playing the Game Properly". That's exclusively your fault. I didn't find the debug mode made Sonic the Hedgehog far too easy and boring; I just didn't turn it on if I wasn't messing around. Same with GTA.
Many competitive Pokèmon players cheat to make their teams, reasoning that as long as you *could* legitimately have what you're using, it's OK to use a hacked one. There are reasons for it:
  • Getting ideal results from doing it properly is horrendously time-consuming.
  • Getting a certain Pokèmon with a specific move with a certain stat spread is basically impossible in many cases as they were released as events (the worst being at physical places where neither resetting until the RNG gods smiled on you nor a guarantee of attending it were luxuries afforded to you).
  • It's REALLY horrendously time-consuming.
  • You have one legendary. It is legal. You have three teams in mind and all of them could use this legendary. All of them use completely different setups. Trading is a crapshoot. What do you do?
  • Even with 1-step egg hatching and 1-step egg laying and intrinsic value viewing mode on, you could be reading War and Peace instead, seriously. Breeding competitive pokèmon is like triple filtered anti-fun.

You say "Piracy is killing Introversion.": In November 2007, apparently only 1 in 11 Uplink players owned it legitimately. Likewise for Darwinia. It had then been over a year since Defcon's release on Steam, over half a year since it saw a retail release in the US. It is now 2012, the game that's come out since then is Multiwinia, Multiwinia tanked hard enough for a "Save Multiwinia!" campaign to be organised and yet IV still exists. Discuss.

You say "Cheating will ruin Prison Architect's micro-transactions": I can't say you're necessarily incorrect but I can say you pulled that one out of your arse.
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Postby shinygerbil » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:23 pm

Hey MikeTheWookiee, long time no see o/



OpenFlow: no, no, no, no and no. In approximately that order. And no.

"IV should punish cheaters even in single-player modes," you say.
"What's the point of punishing players in a single-player game?" we ask. Genuinely interested to know.
"Because actually IV should make it all multiplayer"

>_<

I play a game called Super Monday Night Combat.
It's a competitive, skill-based game aiming to reach a similar audience to Dota, Starcraft, Street Fighter etc.
They have a problem with cheating.
It's multiplayer-only, it's online-only, it has a virtual currency, it is "freemium". They are losing users daily. Tell my why IV should do these things?

(Sadly, the developers behind SMNC really do care about their fans, and SMNC has massive potential - but they've kinda jumped on the wrong bandwagon at a time when freemium games are popping up all over the place. It's very hard to get a piece of that particular pie when your nearest direct competition is League of Legends, currently one of the world's most-played games.)
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Postby Feud » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:33 pm

Mas Tnega wrote:You say "Cheating will ruin Prison Architect's micro-transactions": I can't say you're necessarily incorrect but I can say you pulled that one out of your arse.


Has it been said that PA will have microtransactions, are are you just assuming it to be so for the sake of discussing the point?
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Postby Xocrates » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:35 pm

OpenFlow wrote:You are an extreme alarmist that exploits and misuses the blanket umbrella term of trolling as pretext an guise to silence discussion, to censor topics, to create a chilling effect whereby debate and viewpoints not in alignment with your own narrow prejudiced views of the world are automatically stifled.

Doesn't change the fact that you're just plain trolling.
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Postby Jordy... » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:39 pm

epic troll. Though I'd love it if PA had some online/multiplayer persistence aspect to it..
Cuz fuck logic
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Postby jelco » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:58 pm

Wow. Just wow.

*slowly backs out of the topic*

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Postby Mas Tnega » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:02 pm

Feud wrote:
Mas Tnega wrote:You say "Cheating will ruin Prison Architect's micro-transactions": I can't say you're necessarily incorrect but I can say you pulled that one out of your arse.


Has it been said that PA will have microtransactions, are are you just assuming it to be so for the sake of discussing the point?
The latter, sort of. Specifically, I'm not assuming it not to be so. He can make it up and still happen to be correct and I can't outright say he's wrong. He probably is wrong and I'm pretty sure he is wrong but I'd want proof first.

jelco wrote:Wow. Just wow.

*slowly backs out of the topic*

Jelco
You love our browbeating really.

...right?
Last edited by Mas Tnega on Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby xander » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:03 pm

OpenFlow wrote:You are an extreme alarmist that exploits and misuses the blanket umbrella term of trolling as pretext an guise to silence discussion, to censor topics, to create a chilling effect whereby debate and viewpoints not in alignment with your own narrow prejudiced views of the world are automatically stifled.

You are free to believe that, if you like. On the other hand, as far as I can tell, your posts are crafted to get an emotional response, not to actually add anything to the ongoing discussion. Your topics are meant to produce a reaction rather than to provoke conversation. People have repeatedly answered your assertions and questions, and you have ignored their answers and posted the same crap again, or responded with some new inflammatory reply. This is textbook trolling. Either this is intentional, or you are an idiot. Maybe both.

Jordy...: I can see the appeal of some kind of persistent world, but I feel like it is the kind of thing that is very hard to do well, and that a small studio probably can't do a good job of it. I could be wrong---Minecraft seems to have a persistent world and be popular, despite coming from essentially one person. On the other hand, Minecraft could simply be an outlier. It is hard to say. However, it looks like PA has inherited some of the systems-level design of Subversion, which means that it might be possible for players to create new content fairly easily. If that is the case, some nice way of sharing that content would be nifty.

xander

EDIT:

Mas Tnega wrote:He can make it up and still happen to be correct...

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut from time to time, eh?

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