[Minecraft] Introversion Server

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World Reset when Minecraft 1.2 has stabilised?

Poll ended at Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:41 am

Never!
0
No votes
No, but will accept if necessary
0
No votes
No strong opinions either way
4
31%
Yes, but not required
5
38%
Please!
4
31%
 
Total votes: 13
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Postby Feud » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:39 pm

Also, we'd need a steady food supply (so, the wheat wouldn't just be for the sheep). Unless, of course, we use my method of health recovery. ;)

Question: If dyed wool will be the visible exterior, would we want to make an internal layer of stone or some other material? It's more building being done, but it would be more durable incase something were to happen.
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Postby Xocrates » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:14 pm

Given that repairs would probably be easier from the inside, I would advise against an internal layer. That said, some scafolding inside would probably be a good idea, especially since it could help with the lighting issue by virtue of giving something to place torches/light blocks on.

Also, I've been doing some tests regarding fire. While it seems that fire doesn't spread that much horizontally (though not an insignificant amount) there doesn't seem to be anything preventing it from spreading upwards. This means that in theory lightning would probably not be that bad, but intentional griefing/lava could cause some very serious damage.

EDIT: I just remembered, lightning happens only while it's raining, which should put out the fire almost instantly. Griefing/accidents are the main cause for concern.
Last edited by Xocrates on Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Feud » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:36 pm

I think that furnaces, placed up against flammable blocks, can cause thouse blocks to ignite during smelting. So, even if not intentional, we'd have to make sure that any interior furnaces were placed well away from the outer walls.
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Postby zach » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:40 pm

Xocrates wrote:
zach wrote:Do mob grinders still work?

A quick test in single player creative shows that they still do, however I seriously doubt we could produce TNT faster than it would take to actually dig the hole relative to a TNT explosion.

That is most likely true.

Xocrates wrote:Look, even if you really don't want to use creative mode, can we at least compromise and use creative mode to dig the hole?

While I have made it clear that my personal preference would be to avoid creative mode altogether, I don't have (much :p) more of a say in this than anyone else.
It just seems a bit odd to me to use creative for part of the project if it is at all possible to avoid. Makes it feel less "legit", but then again, I am a perfectionist to the point of self-descruction.

It's perfectly reasonable (I think?) to handle the clearing on creative mode, and as long as we do not generate any resources at all through creative mode, the build itself would still be legit.
It's worth noting, however, that as far as I understand it, the surface/water level is still at 64, giving us 192m of vertical air to build in, without requiring excavation.

In the end, I'm just a pedantic lunatic and since it'll most definitely be an IV community project if anything, the most reasonable suggestions ought to be considered and followed.
Finally, the Multiwinia Park project became boring to me because it was all destruction and no construction for weeks/months.


Xocrates wrote:Also, let's talk logistics. Prior to construction, we will need:

Sheep pen (massive) - Yep. Needs grass as well, of course.
Wheat farm (large) to feed the sheep (reproduction) - Shouldn't need to be that large. The reproduction phase is a one-time job, and after that, wheat could be used for human nutrition.
Cactus farm (massive) - Yep.
Fuel production (better option is likely to be Nether portal to lava lake. This will significantly increase the amount of iron needed due to buckets though) - Since we'll be needing a forest for sticks anyway, why not use Charcoal?
Furnace room (to process cactus into dye) - There's a limit to how many furnaces we'll have a use for, as I don't think we'd be bothered keeping more than, say, 256 running at a time.
Iron (for shears and buckets) - As mentioned above, I suggest using Charcoal for fuel, rendering our iron needs trivial as per your enlightenment.


Xocrates wrote:Also also, I'm going to leave this right here so this is perfectly clear:

ALL PLANNING MUST BE DONE PRIOR TO CONSTRUCTION

I really don't want another instance of a few people doing work while others go faffing about with the tapestry or whatever. Any attempt to change plans that are not a response to emergent problems will be vetoed.

Agreed.

The dimensions of the final structure are already (I presume) set as a Darwinian with a 40x120 base, and the top layer of the scalp at 240m above the soles of the feet.

We can discuss what elevation to build at later.


Xocrates wrote:I'm assuming all tools will be stone.

I would certainly agree with that suggestion.

Stone is an unlimited resource - and amazingly quick to regenerate at will, as well.


Feud wrote:Also, we'd need a steady food supply (so, the wheat wouldn't just be for the sheep). Unless, of course, we use my method of health recovery. ;)

Food is pretty much a non-issue. I personally prefer always having a stack of bread to dying every now and then :p


Xocrates wrote:Given that repairs would probably be easier from the inside, I would advise against an internal layer. That said, some scafolding inside would probably be a good idea, especially since it could help with the lighting issue by virtue of giving something to place torches/light blocks on.

Excellent suggestion. +1 for internal scaffolding.


Xocrates wrote:Also, I've been doing some tests regarding fire. While it seems that fire doesn't spread that much horizontally (though not an insignificant amount) there doesn't seem to be anything preventing it from spreading upwards. This means that in theory lightning would probably not be that bad, but intentional griefing/lava could cause some very serious damage.

EDIT: I just remembered, lightning happens only while it's raining, which should put out the fire almost instantly. Griefing/accidents are the main cause for concern.

Hmm. Accidental fire outbreak at the foot of the structure would certainly be a problem if that is how fire spreads.

To my knowledge, there has not been a single incident of intentional griefing since we implemented the whitelist, however (disregarding minor cases of harmless, childish humour :roll:)


Feud wrote:I think that furnaces, placed up against flammable blocks, can cause thouse blocks to ignite during smelting. So, even if not intentional, we'd have to make sure that any interior furnaces were placed well away from the outer walls.

I did not know this. Good point, we need to be aware of this.


A question: We should probably set up some form of automatic timelapse recording. Does anyone here have any experience with this?

Another question: What sort of date should we reset the map (which I presume we will do before commencing?), and begin the project?
Last edited by zach on Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Miktor » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:41 pm

Xocrates wrote:however I seriously doubt we could produce TNT faster than it would take to actually dig the hole relative to a TNT explosion.

Even if that would be true, having an additional flow of tnt wouldn't make the process slower. We could passively farm it, while we aren't able to play full time. Something like that.
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Postby Xocrates » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:28 am

zach wrote:the Multiwinia Park project became boring to me because it was all destruction and no construction for weeks/months.

Precisely why I suggested we use creative mode :P Also, clearing the construction space in creative mode isn't really that much less legit than what we did for v3/Multiwinia Park

However, there are ways to decrease the excavated area. The most obvious would be not to dig between the legs and/or clear the view (since most of the build would be above ground anyway), but other options are not to hollow the legs.

zach wrote:Wheat farm (large) to feed the sheep (reproduction) - Shouldn't need to be that large. The reproduction phase is a one-time job, and after that, wheat could be used for human nutrition.

Parent sheep have a cooldown before they can reproduce again, and the baby sheep need time to grow. There's nothing stopping us harvesting and breeding sheep at the same time, which would require a more or less constant flow of wheat. (though large is relative in this context)

Besides, the amount of sheep we have a use of would only be dependent on how much dye we can produce

zach wrote:Fuel production (better option is likely to be Nether portal to lava lake. This will significantly increase the amount of iron needed due to buckets though) - Since we'll be needing a forest for sticks anyway, why not use Charcoal?
I was under the impression that the buckets wouldn't be consumed when using lava as fuel, but apparently I was mistaken. Using lava would allow us to very significantly reduce the amount of time/work/wood required by the project, but it seems charcoal will be the best option.

zach wrote:Another question: What sort of date should we reset the map (which I presume we will do before commencing?), and begin the project?

Given the amount of infrastructures/resources needed prior to construction, my suggestion would be to reset the map as soon as the construction limit update is released officially, even if construction only takes place at a later date. This way people can set up the infrastructure while playing "normally", as well as giving an head start on the resources needed (particularly the iron which is easier to get while exploring).

All we would need to set in advance was choosing the construction site.

As for the main construction itself, it depends on when the update is released, personally I'm unsure I would have much time until near july though.

Miktor wrote:
Xocrates wrote:however I seriously doubt we could produce TNT faster than it would take to actually dig the hole relative to a TNT explosion.

Even if that would be true, having an additional flow of tnt wouldn't make the process slower. We could passively farm it, while we aren't able to play full time. Something like that.

If we're able to set it up, sure, why not.
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Postby zach » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:48 am

Xocrates wrote:Also, I've been doing some tests regarding fire. While it seems that fire doesn't spread that much horizontally (though not an insignificant amount) there doesn't seem to be anything preventing it from spreading upwards.

My experiments yield the same results. Padding with water gives no fire-resistance benefits, either (had to try).


Xocrates wrote:However, there are ways to decrease the excavated area. The most obvious would be not to dig between the legs and/or clear the view (since most of the build would be above ground anyway), but other options are not to hollow the legs.

This is pretty genius. We could still clear out a view cone/triangle/slice without requiring too much excavation - and if we leave the bottom 56 metres (presuming soles at elevation 8) of the legs filled, this would save us a ton of time.

We could always go in at a later date and start clearing the legs' inner blocks, if we feel like it.



Xocrates wrote:
zach wrote:Another question: What sort of date should we reset the map (which I presume we will do before commencing?), and begin the project?

Given the amount of infrastructures/resources needed prior to construction, my suggestion would be to reset the map as soon as the construction limit update is released officially, even if construction only takes place at a later date.

I think having a map reset when Minecraft 1.2 is released would be a bit too sudden to spring on our beloved non-IV denizens.

Considering you probably won't have much time until July anyway (this is true for me and anyone else taking exams as well, probably), I yet again propose July 1 (or 1.2 release, whichever is later), and then possibly every 6 or 12 months following.

Alternatively, since it is indeed possible to convert our current map to the new format, and still reap all the benefits of Minecraft 1.2 in any new chunks while retaining our current world, we could also opt to not reset the map at all (until such time as any non-backwards-compatible feature is implemented). Just a thought.
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Postby Xocrates » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:52 am

Didn't they already add a new biome that's not backwards compatible with our current map?

Also, when is 1.2 set to come out?
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Postby GreenRock » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:56 am

Only dabbled around a bit... I think Feud's place needs more fire.
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Postby zach » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:09 am

Xocrates wrote:Didn't they already add a new biome that's not backwards compatible with our current map?

http://youtu.be/4hSdcDZdNV8


Xocrates wrote:Also, when is 1.2 set to come out?

Estimates say February. My guess would be two or three weeks though, tops.


EDIT:
zach wrote:Cactus farm (massive) - Yep.
Fuel production (better option is likely to be Nether portal to lava lake. This will significantly increase the amount of iron needed due to buckets though) - Since we'll be needing a forest for sticks anyway, why not use Charcoal?
Furnace room (to process cactus into dye) - There's a limit to how many furnaces we'll have a use for, as I don't think we'd be bothered keeping more than, say, 256 running at a time.

Actually, what are we thinking?
We just need one furnace, one lump of coal and two cacti. The rest is handled through genetically controlled breeding :D
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Postby Xocrates » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:29 am

Oh. No reason not to use the current map then.

looking at the server map, my suggestions for a location would be either the swampy plains just north of spawn, or the desert next to what I believe to be your place.
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Postby Miktor » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:30 am

zach wrote:Actually, what are we thinking?
We just need one furnace, one lump of coal and two cacti. The rest is handled through genetically controlled breeding :D

But I like making cactus farms :(
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Postby zach » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:33 am

Xocrates wrote:Looking at the server map, my suggestions for a location would be either the swampy plains just north of spawn, or the desert next to what I believe to be your place.

I don't mind much where we put the actual structure (a swamp is probably a decent place, as the dark grass won't interfere with the bright DG colour).

I think we should find someplace lush to farm sheep, though :3


EDIT: Regarding elevation, we should keep the void fog in mind: Image

I don't know whether there's any fog if there is no ceiling, though.
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Postby Shwart!! » Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:26 am

zach wrote:I don't mind much where we put the actual structure (a swamp is probably a decent place, as the dark grass won't interfere with the bright DG colour).


I object to building anywhere with deep water, after what a pain clearing it was last time.

Further, I'm going to have to object to the choice of building material. If it catches fire, we're likely to lose at least a third of the structure, which would be thirty thousand blocks to replace. I know this has been mentioned, but I think it's more of a problem than people are really thinking about.
Considering that fire can spread to any air block, I've only found two effective countermeasures: first, to cover the entire structure, inside and out, with the outside being glass. (This looks awful, by the way, and at that point we might as well just use another material.) Second, we could use a fairly complex redstone system I devised that automatically detects fires and puts up firebreaks to combat it. This has the drawback of requiring hundreds of sticky pistons per 40*40 area, so it would be over 28 thousand sticky pistons for full coverage, not to mention the similar amounts of redstone and 14 thousand water blocks it would take. And it isn't even 100% effective.

There is one bit of good news from my investigations, though. It seems that deserts cannot have thunderstorms, so if we found one large enough, it would prevent lightning from being a concern.
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Postby Xocrates » Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:42 pm

zach wrote:Actually, what are we thinking?
We just need one furnace, one lump of coal and two cacti. The rest is handled through genetically controlled breeding :D

Huh. Lamarckian sheep. I wasn't aware of that.

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