Bitcoin to buy IV games

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HostFat
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Postby HostFat » Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:04 pm

I just come back to give you an example:

The minimal transaction fee is 0.0005 BTC ( or even lower ) for every transactions.
The actual value of 1 BTC is $4.92.
So you will pay $0.00246 for a transaction of $1000 ( 203.25 BTC )

Try to compare this to paypal fees ( or other payment processors )

It's good also for micro-transactions, think about gold/gift market on mmorpg ore anything like them!

I give you some good links about this project:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Main_Page
http://bitcoincharts.com/
http://blockchain.info/
https://bitcointalk.org/

I'm a bitcoin enthusiast, but anyway I think you should give a look a this new technology :)
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Postby Rkiver » Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:50 pm

Holy necrobump Batman.
I think it's clear for the most part bitcoin is ignored and fairly dead, at least around here.
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Postby Mas Tnega » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:57 pm

To own a Bitcoin legitimately, it's extremely likely that you:
(a) Own a business that accepts Bitcoin.
(b) Basically owned a supercomputer.
(c) Got really, really lucky.

None of these make for a significant market.


More than likely, you used a botnet or sold contraband on Silk Road. Who the fuck would touch anything so strongly attached to that?
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Postby HostFat » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:21 pm

Mas Tnega wrote:To own a Bitcoin legitimately, it's extremely likely that you:
(a) Own a business that accepts Bitcoin.

Ok
Mas Tnega wrote:(b) Basically owned a supercomputer.

Why? :?

Mas Tnega wrote:(c) Got really, really lucky.

Why again? ...


Mas Tnega wrote:More than likely, you used a botnet

... again ... you are missing many points ... your informations about Bitcoin are probably 2 years old ...

Mas Tnega wrote:or sold contraband on Silk Road.

How much "dollars" are used "NOW" for contraband of drugs and weapons all around the world?
I think that the actual Bitcoin market of these "bad" things is probably the 0.0000000001% of it ...
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Postby Feud » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:54 pm

So...why not just use real money?

Seems like a lot of hassle to convert real money to bitcoin, which the business will just have to reconvert back into real money later.
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Postby Mas Tnega » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:56 pm

HostFat wrote:Why? :?
Probability. More power = more chances to solve the block = more bitcoins over sufficient time.

Why again? ...
Your shitty PC from yesterdecade vs everyone stealing everyone else's CPU cycles to generate solutions. Who got more bitcoins out of that?


... again ... you are missing many points ... your informations about Bitcoin are probably 2 years old ...
Except not. The goldrush where people made Bitcoin mining machines with godly numbers of GPUs and gigantic ass cooling systems was in June 2011. That's 9 months ago.

How much "dollars" are used "NOW" for contraband of drugs and weapons all around the world?
Fuck knows. The entire black market's worth about $800 billion globally. Given a global GDP of US$61.96 trillion, that's 1.3%.

I think that the actual Bitcoin market of these "bad" things is probably the 0.0000000001% of it ...
The value of Bitcoin shot up 200% within a week of Gawker posting an article about Silk Road. It then crashed just as hard, just as fast. Correlation does not mean causation, but damn, that's some coincidence.
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Postby HostFat » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:29 pm

Mas Tnega wrote:Probability. More power = more chances to solve the block = more bitcoins over sufficient time.


Mining and selling products/services are 2 different things.
You can sell products/services without knowing "anything" about mining.
You don't need a super computer, stop saying this because it's FUD.

Your shitty PC from yesterdecade vs everyone stealing everyone else's CPU cycles to generate solutions. Who got more bitcoins out of that?


]https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65865.msg764420#msg764420
Botnets are only a temporary problem for Bitcoin.

The authors have missed several important points:

1 Some honest miners also have a zero cost curve for electricity. Market forces will ensure that their market share will rise. Every electric heater in the world has the potential to be converted into a mining rig. This market can potentially absorb a huge amount of Ghash/s.

2. Most ordinary people (=botnet victims) are ditching their PCs for laptops and laptops for tablets, which have humble GPU power compared to even an amateur miner.

3. Successful botnets operate stealthily. Botnets that cause too much disruption for their victims are the ones that get shut down. It is difficult to run a stealthy mining botnet for an extended period of time, because at the very least the fan noise is going to bother the victims.

4. Botnets have a limited lifetime. Hackers must constantly work hard at infecting new machines in order to make money. A miner, on the other hand, has a passive source of income once he has invested in the rig.

5. CPU => GPU => FPGA => ASIC => highly specialized non-silicon IC



Except not. The goldrush where people made Bitcoin mining machines with godly numbers of GPUs and gigantic ass cooling systems was in June 2011. That's 9 months ago.

What is the point!? Why do you care so much about miners? :|
I repeat, everyone can open a shop/service and start accepting Bitcoins without knowing anything about mining.

The value of Bitcoin shot up 200% within a week of Gawker posting an article about Silk Road. It then crashed just as hard, just as fast. Correlation does not mean causation, but damn, that's some coincidence.

So what? Bitcoin mined by now: 8.551.000
Value of 1 Bitcoin now: $5.24
So if we think that the entire bitcoin market is a black market ( "and it's not" ), we are talking about $44.721.730
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Postby Feud » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:44 pm

Again, why? What's the benifit of using Bitcoin over existing services and government currencies?
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Postby Rkiver » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:58 pm

Simply put, none. It's at best an idiotic pyramid scheme.
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Postby HostFat » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:39 pm

Feud wrote:Again, why? What's the benifit of using Bitcoin over existing services and government currencies?
http://forums.introversion.co.uk/introversion/viewtopic.php?p=103292#103292

Example, paypal:
They will sell it for $30.
Paypal will ask the 3.9% + $0.35 for every transaction/copy.

So if IV makes $1000000 from a new game ( with the sum of all sold copies ), paypal will take the 3.9% + 0.35 ( for every copy ) ... it's like $50666 !! ( I'm not sure, try yourself )
Result: instead of $1000000, IV will make $949334.

if every transactions is made with Bitcoins, it will cost $0.00262 every one of them.
Result: instead of $1000000, IV will make $999913.
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Postby jelco » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:49 pm

What baffles me is how some people seem to think they're fighting some holy war trying to convert people to Bitcoins. Like I said before, I see it as a nice experiment and the concept is interesting indeed, but it just hasn't proven its value yet. There's some logic in trying to get more people to use/accept the system because otherwise you just won't know, but the current status just doesn't give enough precedent.

Most people I know who are intrigued by Bitcoins seem to mostly like the way they can analyse its economy. From what I've seen, that's just dabbling in some DIY/home-schooled economics with something slightly less complicated than the real deal. That's nice and honestly I'm very intrigued by it as well, but its similarities to a real economy alone simply don't make it a legitimate candidate for co-existence and/or replacement (which, by the way, those friends of mine all seem to agree upon).

In a less general sense, you're not actually responding to any of the points being made. I'm all for new initiatives like this and it's understandable you want to defend it if you're an enthusiast, but it would help a great deal if you just admit it has its weaknesses. The fact that you don't need to mine doesn't mean mining isn't an issue. The fact that currently Bitcoin doesn't seem to be influenced by Silk Road doesn't negate the fact that it has been proved there's a significant correlation. And who cares about the total value of the Bitcoin economy in dollars? These are relative numbers we're dealing with, not concrete absolute numbers - however insignificant the total economy may be in relation to the entire black market economy on the planet, that doesn't say anything about how much of that economy itself is used for illegal purposes. As for the transaction costs debate - I can't even begin to understand how that's even relevant, and considering the number of buyers you're going to need for that to become a significant profit margin is just plain unrealistic, it's not even a proper argument.

Bottom line: Bitcoin as a concept is an interesting idea, but the dynamics of its current economy (not the currency itself, the economy) make it a very unstable and unreliable trading tool. A supercomputer can still act very stupid if you program it wrong - in the same way an economy can misbehave very easily regardless of the currency's 'design'. What you're currently doing is bringing up arguments defending the currency, while we're debating the economy. Please stop, it just makes you look like a silly fanboy.

Jelco
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Postby Mas Tnega » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:06 pm

HostFat wrote:You can sell products/services without knowing "anything" about mining.
If I could do it for Bitcoin, I'd do it for the dollar or the pound. So would everyone else. And we'd have done it already.
We do not do this and for good reason. Firstly, we have no product or service to offer. Secondly, we can't all run businesses; market saturation notwithstanding, you kind of have not suck at business to do it.

You don't need a super computer, stop saying this because it's FUD.
Except for the specialised technology that everyone talk about on that forum you're about to link to and quote. Your quote will talk about the relative insignificance of GPUs, yet the de facto official guide to making your very own mining rig will expect to use ten of them.
(It will also say that the power of a botnet will be partly countered by those machines being ever so slightly crappier than before, the accuracy of such a statement I can't help but find somewhat dubious. The importance of stealth and the issue of infecting new machines I think is lost on the fact that your average computer user is, even in this day, kind of a moron)

What is the point!? Why do you care so much about miners? :|
$44 million was given to a bunch of nerds who heard about some currency someone else invented and told their computers to gather it for them. As this process produced literally nothing, money wasn't introduced to the world, it was just taken. That's why I care about it. I also care about it because I have no other means of touching this currency other than mining and I am so not alone in this fact that it bears mentioning, over and over and over again.
The way the currency's value has gone all over the place over the last 12 months, I wouldn't dare to receive it in exchange for anything but sitting on my ass, doing nothing. At least then, I wouldn't be losing out on anything. So no, not only would I not sell for Bitcoins, I wouldn't work for them either.

I repeat, everyone can open a shop/service and start accepting Bitcoins without knowing anything about mining.
I repeat, they could do it for currencies much more universally accepted, infinitely more reliable and yet they still don't. Your statement is horrifically naive.

So what? Bitcoin mined by now: 8.551.000
Value of 1 Bitcoin now: $5.24
So if we think that the entire bitcoin market is a black market ( "and it's not" ), we are talking about $44.721.730
So what? Bitcoin is the designated stoner currency, that's what! That's what made it so massively popular. That's what caused the phenomenal boom. That's what caused the immediate crash. Bitcoin has no credibility.
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Postby HostFat » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:25 pm

@jelco
I have already discussed many of these topics, and I don't like to start it again ( english also isn't my mother language ).
I'm sure that many of you will change idea before the end of this year.
I stop here :)
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Postby Xarlaxas » Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:01 am

That's cute, withdrawing from a debate by saying that everyone will see the light eventually is laughable, if supporters of BitCoin can't make a cogent argument about why we should be using it and refuse to answer issues raised by skeptics then people aren't going to change their minds!
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Postby Rkiver » Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:01 am

Xarlaxas wrote:That's cute, withdrawing from a debate by saying that everyone will see the light eventually is laughable, if supporters of BitCoin can't make a cogent argument about why we should be using it and refuse to answer issues raised by skeptics then people aren't going to change their minds!


Replace bitcoin with religion in your statement and nothing changes!

Seriously though, bitcoin is dead, none of us here give a damn about it, the end.
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