FRACT (IGF finalist)

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xander
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Postby xander » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:18 am

Maybe I'm just getting old...

My first computer didn't have a hard drive. It had two 5.25" floppy drives. A 100 KB file was large. It wasn't until 1999 that I even had a computer that was capable of storing a file as large as 100 MB (that was the year that I got a new computer with a 3 GB HD, replacing the 12 year old machine with a 20 MB drive). Even then, when your total storage capacity is only 3 GB, 100 MB seems like a lot.

On the other hand, take a serious look at the files on your drive. How many of them really exceed 100 MB? I don't know about you, but the primary purpose of my computer is to allow me to get work done. I produce a lot of files, most of which are under 1 MB---in fact, most of them can be measured in single digit kilobytes. My music library is populated primarily by files that are less than 10 MB in size. The only kinds of files that I can imagine that would be larger than 100 MB would be installation archives (like the one linked above) and movies. As these files are an order of magnitude larger than anything else on the drive, and make up a small percentage of the total number of files, it seems fair to call them monsters. They are an anomaly, rather than the norm.

xander
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Xocrates
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Postby Xocrates » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:27 am

That's the thing isn't it? A 100 MB file is large. A 100 MB Download, in this day and age, isn't.
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jelco
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Postby jelco » Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:23 am

Basically all the 100MB+ files I have would be installed applications (e.g. games), disk images and videos. Lots of films and series amongst the video of course, but also VJ footage. A 30-second loop at PAL can easily take up loads of space when you keyframe every single frame (makes scratching a hell of a lot easier for your PC to handle). And of course there's the DV recording of my NYE set, 6.5 hours taking up 85 GB of space in a single file.

However, transferring the data has indeed become a piece of cake. Most of my sense of relativity flew out the window when I joined SNT who at the time still hosted the world's largest Firefox mirror. (We're currently still second globally.) The traffic this generates is such that our University occasionally gets phone calls from SurfNet (the Dutch NREN provider, basically the ISP for just about every Uni and college in the country) about the peaks it generates on their network. See the pink peaks on this graph.

We do actually host other things but none generate as much traffic - my personal nerd favourite is that we are the main Debian repository for our country (ftp.nl.debian.org). :)

Yrael wrote:Not so silly actually, there's a difference between a byte and a bit. So i'm standing up for "octet" ! (even the name is a clue to it's nature :P )

Seriously, when you try to push an unconventional unit and you're going to pretend to know a real argument in favour of it, you could at least try to do a little bit of research. An octet is not used to emphasize the difference between bytes and bits, it is used to explicitly state the number of 8 bits in situations where a byte may not have one definition (as there is no standard) and may be more or less bytes than 8. We're talking about files on household computers here, not machines running on platforms almost deemed extinct in this day and age - obviously we're going by the 8-bits-in-a-byte definition, and as long as someone understands the difference between the two, they'll know this cardinality. An octet, however, is a relatively unknown term and is not going to clear up any ambiguity amongst people who couldn't distinguish between bits and bytes in the first place. It can definitely be confusing to not know the difference between bits and bytes, but suddenly starting about octets is overly complicating the matter, just bringing more head-spinning to the table for the uninformed ones among us and frankly is of no use at all in this entire discussion.

Also, coming up with unconventional units in the way you do makes you look like an elitist show-off, taking pride in your knowledge of futile trivia which has to be presented to the whole world in a way that helps no-one in any way possible at all.

But, to get back on the subject...

The game is fantastic, so stop whining about your puny storage and connection problems and get on with downloading! :P

Jelco
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Postby Cooper42 » Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:40 am

100MB is large for a single file and is a large amount to download in one go.

What are you lot downloading?
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Postby Seitaro » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:30 am

Cooper42 wrote:What are you lot downloading?

Well ask yourself, what are the biggest files on the internet usually? :roll:

And I'll say that a file does 'feel' bigger if it's going to take a long ass time to download. I torrent a lot so a 100mb file can take 5 minutes as oppose to 15 - 25 minutes if you tried to pull it right off a server.
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Postby jelco » Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:41 pm

Our campus is set up as one giant home network which means files are shared all over the place. With some servers downloading the newest episodes of every interesting series out there as soon as they come out, we often just stream HD episodes with our media player - usually exceeding 500 MB a piece. Once we hit movies we usually don't stream anymore because of jitters, especially with 1080p, which is when we move around 10 GB files across the network. Perhaps my sense of what is large is skewed by the abnormal network speed, but at least it's not as uncommon as you people say.

Plus, 100MB files aren't as rare to download for 'normal' people as some of you seem to think. I work at a webhosting company as third-level support/assistant system administrator, where I regularly see customers who use their webspace to store entire picture archives, often zipped. This tends to result in 300 MB zips per month (and some are still confused you can't upload files that large with HTTP POST). You can also create backups of your entire hosting package with the administrator panel, and with our smallest packages being 3 GB in size the resulting tars are fairly large. Sure, it's not exactly an everyday download, but there's loads of people out there - as unexperienced with a computer as I am with being subtle on a forum - who create and move around large files like it's nothing.

Welcome to the modern world. :P

Seitaro wrote:And I'll say that a file does 'feel' bigger if it's going to take a long ass time to download. I torrent a lot so a 100mb file can take 5 minutes as oppose to 15 - 25 minutes if you tried to pull it right off a server.

Of course a protocol has very little to do with the download speed the way you suggest (there's still some protocols better suited for file transfer than others, however). I tend to get an average of 5 Mbps over regular HTTP downloads with my Uni-sponsored FTTH line here. In fact most servers tend to have way better upload connections than your average torrent uploader. The only reason torrents tend to be faster is the parallel downloading mechanism, which will still be bottlenecked by your own download connection.

Jelco
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xander
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Postby xander » Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:53 pm

Seitaro wrote:
Cooper42 wrote:What are you lot downloading?

Well ask yourself, what are the biggest files on the internet usually? :roll:

Ah! That must be the difference! I'm married, and can have sex whenever I want. I don't need porn. :P

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Postby Mas Tnega » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:25 pm

Even during lunchtime?
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Cooper42
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Postby Cooper42 » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:31 pm

Only after she's made the lunch.

Because she's a WOMAN and therefore should be in the KITCHEN preparing FOOD for MEN. UNLESS she is having SEX.

See what I did there?
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Postby Yrael » Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:58 pm

Actually, I use them because I'm French, not because I'm showing off. ^^ (And we use only bits & octets so I was indeed talking about the 8bits in a octet).

But you're right, main topic is the game, and I've got to go and try it out.
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Postby Mas Tnega » Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:56 pm

Cooper42 wrote:Only after she's made the lunch.

Because she's a WOMAN and therefore should be in the KITCHEN preparing FOOD for MEN. UNLESS she is having SEX.

See what I did there?
Unfortunately not. Your efforts to hammer the point home as hard as possible has denied me my sight.
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Postby Jordy... » Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:02 pm

I don't see what you did there Cooper, but I do totally agree with you.

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