Terry Jones' plan to burn the Qu'ran on September 11

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Terry Jones' plan to burn the Qu'ran...what opinions do you have?

He's doing the right thing! He's preaching!!!
1
10%
Maybe there is a better solution than burning books...
2
20%
He shouldn't be doing it. That is wrong.
6
60%
He's fucked...
1
10%
 
Total votes: 10
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Terry Jones' plan to burn the Qu'ran on September 11

Postby Admiral Yoshi » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:08 am

Terry Jones' plan to burn the Qu'ran...any opinions in it?
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Postby DTNC Vicious » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:54 am

well... i have a really strong opinion on this matter, he does have a right to do it but he shouldn't do it, he could be jeopardizing the lifes of us troops that are active in iraq/afganistan or any other muslim country
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Postby allen » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:24 am

It's his books, not mine, that he's burning. I could care less what he does in his free time.
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Postby Montyphy » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:47 am

Haven't you heard? It was cancelled yesturday.

allen wrote:I could care less what he does in his free time.


Surely you mean you couldn't care less. [size=0]That silly Americanism needs to be eradicated :P[/size]
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Postby Cooper42 » Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:46 am

When I read the title I thought you were talking about the comedian/director/author/Python Terry Jones. Shame.

Anyway, people should burn what they like. Even if they are intellectual morons who can't differentiate religious texts from violent dogma.

I'd quite like a mass religious text burning myself, but for very different reasons to the Reverend.
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Postby zjoere » Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:20 pm

Montyphy wrote:Haven't you heard? It was cancelled yesturday.

allen wrote:I could care less what he does in his free time.


Surely you mean you couldn't care less. [size=0]That silly Americanism needs to be eradicated :P[/size]


Maybe he did actually mean he could care less since he cared enough to make the post.

Personally I wouldn't have minded it. You can't stop people from doing something they have a right to do.
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Postby Montyphy » Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:48 pm

zjoere wrote:
Montyphy wrote:Haven't you heard? It was cancelled yesturday.

allen wrote:I could care less what he does in his free time.


Surely you mean you couldn't care less. [size=0]That silly Americanism needs to be eradicated :P[/size]


Maybe he did actually mean he could care less since he cared enough to make the post.


1. Your reasoning is illogical and nonsensical.
2. When used without the negative the statement is intended to be sarcastic, but therein lies the problem, people fail to notice the sarcasm just as you did. I take it you didn't read the article I secretly linked to?

zjoere wrote:You can't stop people from doing something they have a right to do.


That's an awfully nice straw man you're making there. EDIT: Oh right, this bit wasn't aimed at me...
Last edited by Montyphy on Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby vanarbulax » Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:00 pm

For those who say "I could care less".

Also book burning is stupid, but I can't stop you from doing it.
Last edited by vanarbulax on Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Feud » Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:25 pm

When I lived in Florida and Alabama there were Churches that routinely held Book of Mormon burnings, and one that even yearly burned missionaries in effigy (till fire marshall finally stepped in).

So, with that in mind, the Koran burning : Is it stupid? Absolutely. Unchristian? I believe so. Surprising? Not really.

But, for the sake of giggles, I'm going to play devils advocate for a moment:

We have laws about "fighting words" and inciting riots, basically that your rights to freedom of speech do not allow you to say anything in any situation if what you're saying creates a potentially dangerous situation for the public or another citizen. So, if one cannot lawfully create a dangerous situation by inciting panic or inviting violent response, might those same laws be applied to Koran burning, if such might reasonably be determined to create a climate of public danger? If not this particular case, might it other different circumstance?
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Postby xander » Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:00 pm

Feud wrote:We have laws about "fighting words" and inciting riots, basically that your rights to freedom of speech do not allow you to say anything in any situation if what you're saying creates a potentially dangerous situation for the public or another citizen. So, if one cannot lawfully create a dangerous situation by inciting panic or inviting violent response, might those same laws be applied to Koran burning, if such might reasonably be determined to create a climate of public danger? If not this particular case, might it other different circumstance?

So, by that logic, the constitutional rights of Americans only apply as long as there is not a bunch of wackos somewhere in the world threatening to kill people if those rights are exercised? I'm sorry, I don't buy it. Limitations on the right to free expression come in when there is an immediate and direct expectation that violence will occur. For instance, if I call you a mother fucking moron, then make claims about the so-so head that your mother gave last night, while yelling three inches from your face, those might be considered fighting words. If I tell you that Ahmed Q. Muslim down the street is a filthy raghead, and that you should go set his house on fire, that is inciting you to violence. Burning a bunch of books, no matter how distasteful, is neither.

Moreover, I find the claim that a book burning in Florida is going to cause further violence in the Middle East to be fucking ridiculous. No one that hasn't been radicalized by years of Predator and Reaper drone attacks, car bombings, shootings---in short, American occupation---is going to be radicalized by some racist bigot in the US burning a few books. People who have already been radicalized might use it as an excuse to commit acts of violence, but they were almost certainly going to commit acts of violence, anyway. The book burning is not realistically putting any American troops at risk.

In fact, the people that I worry most about are Muslims in the US. Book burnings have a tendency to fuel the anger of the people burning the books, or the people that agree with the book burners. Even then burning books is not an incitement to riot, nor does it constitute fighting words. People who use a book burning as an excuse to commit acts of violence need to be held responsible for the actions that they actually commit---some guy burning a few books is not responsible for their actions.

The correct way to deal with speech that you don't like is to mock it or ignore it. It is inappropriate to force or coerce a person into silence because there is a possibility that some wackos on the other side of the world might be offended.

xander

EDIT: This, for instance, is a correct response:
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Postby Jordy... » Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:13 pm

If Allah existed and he didn't want this to happen he would prevent it from happening DUUH, so all these moslim's are just scared that:

A. Allah does want this to happen, meaning mohamed must have messed up somehwere.
B. Allah does not exist.
C. Allah is not allmighty powerfull.

So... wait sec, it DIDN'T happen?!

Seriously though, I think all opinions are correct, it just depends on where you come from. If a moslim says he shouldn't do it cause he'll be offended, then yea, he's right, don't do it you'll offend him. If a dog says yea, we should do it, cause we have the right too, then yea sure, do it. I don't think these 2 opinions are in conflict with each other.

Personally, I would like it too happen, don't they burn american flags or whatever there as well? Don't these people cry for the death of israel and america as well?
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Postby Xocrates » Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:39 pm

jelco wrote:(like how New York has started seriously considering a mosque on Ground Zero)

Except they haven't. First because it's not at Ground zero, second because, as far as I can gather, it's not government backed, and third because it's not an actual mosque.
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Postby zjoere » Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:02 pm

Xocrates wrote:
jelco wrote:(like how New York has started seriously considering a mosque on Ground Zero)

Except they haven't. First because it's not at Ground zero, second because, as far as I can gather, it's not government backed, and third because it's not an actual mosque.


Looks like you beat me to linking this cracked article on the subject.

@Monthyphy: I didn't catch the hidden link while quoting you. I personally wasn't aware of that use of the sentence.
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Postby (MOR) » Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:07 pm

Who want to know about Terry Jones maybe should back to Germany"Cologne".. He was there from years ago before leaving it after doing so many trouble.

This not the first time.. So who will care ?


Edit: for more infos check this http://www.berlinonline.de/berliner-zeitung/politik/309848/309849.php
Last edited by (MOR) on Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby xander » Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:23 pm

jelco wrote:--==<snip>==--

I think we are largely in agreement, but I just want to make sure that I am clear: I am not arguing that Jones is doing something smart, nor am I agreeing with his actions. I was responding directly to Feud's comments about fighting words and incitement. In essence, Feud was arguing that this may be a case where Jone's speech is not protected under the first amendment, and thus should be stopped. I disagree.

My main argument is that the people that are demanding that Jones not burn the books are demanding that Jones waive his first amendment rights. Those that are demanding that he not burn the books for the sake of the troops (WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN^WTROOPS!) are attempting to coerce Jones into waiving his first amendment rights. These people are taking the wrong approach.

For instance, Obama's reaction, which was "Jones shouldn't burn the books because it will hurt the troops," is the wrong reaction. I understand that Obama needs to distance American policy from the actions of a lone wingnut. He needs to make it clear to the Muslim world that the United States does not officially stand by the racist and bigoted things that Jones is doing. I get that. However, he also needs to uphold the ideals of the United States. A much better official reaction would have been "Jones is an idiot, and nothing that he says is representative of American policy. However, he has every right to be an idiot, and we aren't going to stop him, or demand that he stop himself. That's what freedom is all about."

So, to be clear, Jones is a fucking moron. He is a racist, arrogant asshole. But, hey, if he wants to show the world how much of a lackwit he his, more power to him. He has that right, and we shouldn't try to stop him. We certainly shouldn't try to coerce him into shutting up. He has identified himself as an idiot, and we can now safely ignore him and those that associate with him, and focus on something more important.

xander

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