Creationism.

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NeatNit
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Postby NeatNit » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:33 pm

I could have SWORN there was just a post here saying that the universe isn't 3D.
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Xocrates
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Postby Xocrates » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:42 pm

You could, couldn't you >.>

Actually, yes, there was such post. But it was removed because I admit to not having enough knowledge to back that up. However the point that the Universe isn't exactly 3D stands.
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Postby NeatNit » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:46 pm

:twisted:
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Postby xander » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:06 pm

TomCat39 wrote:
xander wrote:
TomCat39 wrote:Being that there is a center to our universe and as far as I know, an outside edge (which is still expanding)...

Incorrect. Modern cosmological models do not posit that there is a center or edge to the universe. Or, alternatively, every point is the center of the universe, as where ever you stand, every other part of the universe is moving away from you.

xander


Doesn't this negate the big bang theory? I thought the bang origin was the center fo the universe, and since it's exapnding out from that origin, also has an edge. Or do I totally misunderstand what the big bang is all about?

I think you misunderstand big bang theory. You might want to do some reading into Klein or Poincare geometries, for a start.

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Postby darthkiwi » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:40 pm

I mean it. Show me a war that WASN'T caused by religion. You can't. Every war was, in its core, caused by different beliefs.

While religious differences are sometimes a cause of war, and are often a factor (or are exploited by the warmakers), it's by no means the only reason for war. Take Edward I's attempted invasion of Scotland: that was an attempt to expand his influence over the entirety of the British Isles. William the Conquerer's conquest in 1066 was pure-and-simple domination (although there was something of a "you promised me you'd let me be king" aspect to it). Henry VIII's various wars with France (which mostly came to nothing) were attempts to recapture the spirit of the English warrior-kings of the past, namely Henry V, and maybe conjure up a bit of glory. The American War of Independence was, as far as I can make out, what it pertains to be: a war of independence, rather than a war of religion.

The "atoms are little galaxies" concept is a very pleasing science-fiction motif, but I don't think it really holds water, because while those images of raspberry-like nuclei with electrons "orbiting" around them do look similar to solar systems, I think this is more due to the laws of maths and the particular properties of the circle (ie. a shape drawn from points at a set distance from another point), rather than an indication that the universe is a giant fractal ala the Mandelbrot set (although that really is a fabulous idea).
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Re: Creationism.

Postby NeoThermic » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:46 pm

NeatNit wrote:I mean it. Show me a war that WASN'T caused by religion. You can't.


World War I history called, it wants you to look again.

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Postby MaximusBrood » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:57 pm

NeatNit wrote:I mean it. Show me a war that WASN'T caused by religion. You can't. Every war was, in its core, caused by different beliefs.

I always hate that 'atheist argument', saying that "religion has been the basis for many wars" and thereby implying that atheism would make all conflict between human groups vanish. Indeed, many wars were started out of a dispute on religious grounds, but there would've been numerous other reasons to pick up the swords and axes if both groups didn't believe in a god.

Read some literature; the 'lust to aggress and create wars' is inherently human.
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Postby shinygerbil » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:03 pm

Or, watch more South Park. The United Atheists' Alliance will surely defeat the Amalgamated Atheists' League!*

*i made those up, but you get the idea
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Postby Rkiver » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:13 pm

Religion has been used as an excuse for war, but the cause is usually human nature.

Creationism in and of itself is bullshit, pretty much like the bible (or any other religious text you wish to put here).

The Big Bang theory (if anyone argues the theory word usage here I will hit you) is the most likely occurance. Why? Because we can reproduce quite accurately results in labs (CERN et all).

Creationism..."the bible says so". Oh shut up.
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Postby MikeTheWookiee » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:34 pm

TomCat39 wrote:
xander wrote:
TomCat39 wrote:Being that there is a center to our universe and as far as I know, an outside edge (which is still expanding)...

Incorrect. Modern cosmological models do not posit that there is a center or edge to the universe. Or, alternatively, every point is the center of the universe, as where ever you stand, every other part of the universe is moving away from you.

xander


Doesn't this negate the big bang theory? I thought the bang origin was the center fo the universe, and since it's exapnding out from that origin, also has an edge. Or do I totally misunderstand what the big bang is all about?

Going back to this (someone is wrong on the internet, and all), I think I recall that the Big Bang is generally supposed to have happened everywhere in the Universe.

And back on the new derailment, the current Iraq one is, I feel, not based upon religious differences. It's based upon the fact that we rather pissed Hussein off before, and he was aiming his WMD's at us in a threatening manner. (:lol:)

Also, on-topic, didn't the Vatican recently announce that even they thought creationism was a load of bull? Along with trying to convince us all that evolution was their idea all along, I seem to recall.
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Postby TomCat39 » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:36 pm

I also want to note, not everything is moving away from us. If this were true we wouldn't have craters nor be worried about being hit by more random rocks. Nor would the moon look like swiss cheese.

I will look into those reads concerning big bang theory. I'm going by my understanding of what was taught nearly 20 years ago.
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Postby RabidZombie » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:01 am

TomCat39 wrote:I also want to note, not everything is moving away from us. If this were true we wouldn't have craters nor be worried about being hit by more random rocks. Nor would the moon look like swiss cheese.

I will look into those reads concerning big bang theory. I'm going by my understanding of what was taught nearly 20 years ago.


Yes, because the universe as a whole expanding and the galaxies getting further apart from each other means that there can't be various objects like meteoroids moving about in space.
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Postby MikeTheWookiee » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:03 am

By 'us', we mean the local group of a few galaxies (and maybe our supercluster too). By 'everything else', we mean all the other galaxies which aren't in our local group / supercluster (I may read up on that later, if I can be bothered).
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Re: Creationism.

Postby Feud » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:34 am

NeatNit wrote:I mean it. Show me a war that WASN'T caused by religion. You can't. Every war was, in its core, caused by different beliefs.


One or two:

French and Indian War
American Revolutionary War
War of 1812
Napoleonic Wars
US/Mexico War
American Civil War
Spanish American War
World War I
Japanese Invasion of Mainland Asia (Korea and China)
World War II
French Indochina War
Korean War
Vietnam War
Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan
Gulf War I
Gulf War II
Russian Invasion of Georgia
World War Z

Want any more?
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Re: Creationism.

Postby MaximusBrood » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:38 am

Feud wrote:[..]
World War Z

Want any more?

I believe the wars fought in Darwinia weren't religiously motivated either.

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