My life is a practical joke.

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Ace Rimmer
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Postby Ace Rimmer » Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:59 pm

I've already addressed that when I stated:

However, what we believe isn't easy to accept when the world is different (like Feud's situation) and isn't easy to truly follow partly because of that. The result is those that only pay lip service end up going elsewhere.

In mainstream Christianity, where nothing is required, blind so-called "faith" is easy. Actually following scripture isn't and will ultimately put you to the test, especially in areas of the world where religion is a point of contention to the extent of violence.

The narrow path the Bible talks about is a very large counter-force to those that haven't proven it to themselves. :wink:
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Postby Rkiver » Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:00 pm

Ok so 5 pages in.....

Feud, Aoife and I have very different beliefs. We love each other very much, and have decided to raise our kids with no religion, but give them all the information they ask about regarding religions, and let them choose their own. Also you could just tell your kids that you don't like alcohol till they were old enough to understand why you choose to not have it. The only people putting barriers here is you.

Choosing religion over someone you care about is idiotic at best. If you love and respect each other you can have different religions and still be together. Aoife and I do it every day.

I won't say I pity you, because I don't, but I do feel a measure of sorrow for your loss of the chance at love.
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Postby Ace Rimmer » Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:04 pm

In Feuds defense, he never said it wouldn't work. He just pointed out all the problems that would be a result of such a marriage.
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Postby Rkiver » Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:14 pm

Ace Rimmer wrote:In Feuds defense, he never said it wouldn't work. He just pointed out all the problems that would be a result of such a marriage.


If it was easy would it be as rewarding though? Like all things in life you must work at a relationship or marriage. He'd have just had some stuff others usually would not deal with.
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Postby Ace Rimmer » Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:21 pm

Rkiver wrote:
Ace Rimmer wrote:In Feuds defense, he never said it wouldn't work. He just pointed out all the problems that would be a result of such a marriage.


If it was easy would it be as rewarding though? Like all things in life you must work at a relationship or marriage. He'd have just had some stuff others usually would not deal with.

Ha! Marriage easy? No such thing. :wink:

Any two people, regardless of personal beliefs that aren't twins will have problems when living in a "marital" style relationship. My argument would be that the more problems you prevent from the beginning the more rewarding it'll be and the more you'll get out of it.
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Postby Feud » Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:16 pm

Rkiver wrote:Choosing religion over someone you care about is idiotic at best.


To quote Shepard Book, "coming from you that means... almost nothing." :P

On a serious note, thanks to everyone for their thoughts on the matter, both the positive and negative. It's a sticky situation, but I think that things will work our for the best.
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Postby rus|Mike » Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:27 pm

Agreed on what xander said so far.

That so-called "religion" (I prefer thinking about this "religion" as about sect) has already seized control over Feud's life to a terrible extend without himself realising it at all. Well, knowing that the primary goal of a religion is control and sect theachings are religion in cube, it's not surpsising at all.

I'm more than sure that many people said it to you, Feud already, but seriously, through that shit out of you head until it's too late.
I really hope you recover :P
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Postby Feud » Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:29 pm

rus|Mike wrote:That so-called "religion" (I prefer thinking about this "religion" as about sect) has already seized control over Feud's life to a terrible extend without himself realising it at all.


And to what extent do I allow my religion to influence my life without realizing it? Since I haven't realized, I would appreciate the enlightenment.
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Postby rus|Mike » Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:37 pm

Feud wrote:
rus|Mike wrote:That so-called "religion" (I prefer thinking about this "religion" as about sect) has already seized control over Feud's life to a terrible extend without himself realising it at all.

And to what extent do I allow my religion to influence my life without realizing it? Since I haven't realized, I would appreciate the enlightenment.

Withour reasizing how it's bad/dangerous, that is. I mean ending communication with a person you like for the sole reason she's not in that your community is a really frightening sympthom. To say nothing about your case with potential marriage. I mean you might have very well exchanged happiness with her (what can a person dream more about rather than being happy with someone he loves?) on those "teachings". And it didn't ring the bell to you.
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Postby Feud » Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:50 pm

rus|Mike wrote:Withour reasizing how it's bad/dangerous, that is. I mean ending communication with a person you like for the sole reason she's not in that your community is a really frightening sympthom.


Who said anything about ending communication with anyone?

rus|Mike wrote:To say nothing about your case with potential marriage. I mean you might have very well exchanged happiness with her (what can a person dream more about rather than being happy with someone he loves?) on those "teachings". And it didn't ring the bell to you.


There are any number of reasons that people chose not to get married, be it financial, emotional, physical, or mental. It seems like choosing not to marry someone because they have different values and as a consequence, morals is a rather good one. A monogamist probably wouldn't be wise to marry a swinger, though they might be very happy together, because their divergent attitudes create natural conflict.

Let's use xander as an example, he tends "to feel that religious indoctrination of children is a form of child abuse." Assuming he were single and met someone that he loved quite a bit, but who felt that it was her duty to raise her children in a house where the children were isolated from anything other than her religious ideas, would anyone find it unreasonable for him not to pursue a marriage?
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Postby rus|Mike » Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:58 pm

Feud wrote:There are any number of reasons that people chose not to get married, be it financial, emotional, physical, or mental. It seems like choosing not to marry someone because they have different values and as a consequence, morals is a rather good one.

Feud wrote:We spend quite a bit of time together, we love each other very much

That should be ebough really. And what "financial reasons" are you talking about? One can only have lame excuses in this field :P
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Re: My life is a practical joke.

Postby NeoThermic » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:03 am

Feud wrote:As such I have had to make the choice of either going after her and abandoning my religious beliefs, or trusting that by letting her go that things will work out.


This, however, is a great example of a false dichotomy. There is a third option (and possibly more options, but we'll ignore the rest because they are not fully relevant); mainly to go after her and not abandon your religious beliefs. I can't overly see why it's such a hangup for you. Try explain it for me.

She clearly (from what you've written) wants to be your partner, I can't see why you've decided to go on a tangent over it. Have you discussed this with her? Your choice directly affects her, so it'd be most logical to do so. See if she comes up with more options; I'd be shocked if she couldn't see the third option.

Really, if you want my read into it, you saw the religious difference and ran away in a scared way. There's no major logical reason why you've come to the conclusion that you have. If she ticks all the boxes but religion, is it fair to discard her over it?

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Re: My life is a practical joke.

Postby Feud » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:38 am

NeoThermic wrote:This, however, is a great example of a false dichotomy. There is a third option (and possibly more options, but we'll ignore the rest because they are not fully relevant); mainly to go after her and not abandon your religious beliefs. I can't overly see why it's such a hangup for you. Try explain it for me.


As I already explained, a central tenet of my religion is the belief that marriage in the Temple is a crucial part of God's plan for our happiness, and a requirement in order to receive certain blessings. If we were to get married it could not be in the manner of my beliefs, and I would therefore be abandoning a core religious value of mine. There is no third option, I can either follow my religious beliefs, or not (either by leaving it completely or just tossing out the parts that I now find inconvenient).

She clearly (from what you've written) wants to be your partner, I can't see why you've decided to go on a tangent over it. Have you discussed this with her? Your choice directly affects her, so it'd be most logical to do so. See if she comes up with more options; I'd be shocked if she couldn't see the third option.


We've talked about it several times, and she was well aware of my feelings about the matter before anything kicked off between us. She knows that marriage in the Temple is a sticking point of mine, and while she wishes I'd change my mind she understands that just as her religion is important to her, that mine is such to me.
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Re: My life is a practical joke.

Postby rus|Mike » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:49 am

Feud wrote:As I already explained, a central tenet of my religion is the belief that marriage in the Temple is a crucial part of God's plan for our happiness

See? You let someone decide what is happiness for you. And your God doen't seem to be very understeanding :shock:
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Re: My life is a practical joke.

Postby NeoThermic » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:22 am

Feud wrote:As I already explained, a central tenet of my religion is the belief that marriage in the Temple is a crucial part of God's plan for our happiness, and a requirement in order to receive certain blessings.


Of which you can cite such a reference to your scripture? I.e is the limitation you've prevented created directly from the scripture you read, or is it a social limit?



Feud wrote:If we were to get married it could not be in the manner of my beliefs, and I would therefore be abandoning a core religious value of mine. There is no third option, I can either follow my religious beliefs, or not (either by leaving it completely or just tossing out the parts that I now find inconvenient).


It's what all the "in" religions do! ;)

Fair enough that you feel that it's a core item to which you can't budge. Being said, this appears to be a baby/bathwater situation. What you've explained still strikes me as strange; it'd be as if I were to post that I declined to go out with a girl because she was a Christian due to the fact that I'm an Atheist (of the Nontheism sense, if you wish to get picky).


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