Drugs and narcotics

[Feud]

By the way, the poll options aren't all that great. I would guess that very few with internet access have not tried one or several drugs in their lifetime, even if they are as common as aspirin, caffeine, or allergy medicine.

That is why I put "tried it once or a few times", given the amount of drugs in everyday society it is nearly impossible to not have had a drug at some point.

[ScareyedHawk]

Speaking about students of my group, ~15% have tried drugs in some way and I find such percentage alarming. All these smoking stuff, SP, LSD and 2-CB are among the most popular.

I do not advocate all drugs. Some are very dangerous to both body and soul, like heroine and cocaine, but I consider the "lesser" stimulants nothing but pleasant.

Oh yeah, this one is among the most popular arguments. But a narcotic is a narcotic. You can't say you're not alcoholic because you stick to beer and refrain from vodka, can you? :P

Somehow you believe that all drugs are equal. This is a very big fallacy, because they vary a lot.

You can't compare alcohol with other drugs in that way, because alcohol is a single substance that is the primary psychoactive ingredient in beer and vodka and the like. All other drugs have separate primary psychoactive substances, and they are all therefore also very different. You can compare vodka and beer the same way you compare hashish and marijuana, though, because they are the very same thing, just in a different form. Hashish has more concentrated THC (The primary substance in cannabis) than marijuana does, the very same way vodka has more alcohol than beer. Heroine for example, though, has no THC at all, and can thus not be put in the same category as cannabis.
Also, I consider alcohol a drug.
In fact, I consider alcohol a lot worse than cannabis in every way possible.
When many people consume a lot of alcohol they often get aggressive and can't decide when to stop drinking. They often also get aggressive and may die by simply drinking too much. It can also cause a nasty addiction.
I dare you to find a single case where any creature died of a cannabis overdose, human or animal.
When you smoke cannabis, everything feels just great. The world is vivid and music gets beautiful. You sit down, laid back, and just smiles and laughs. It's not very hard to tell if you've had enough, either, like it sometimes is with alcohol. If you're done, you just stop and enjoy a few hours of euphoria. If you do smoke too much, though, you'll most likely just pass out.

[sfericz]

Let me just say this, cannabis is a widely used drug, policemen, politics, even teachers have or is still using it. Its not something that is 100 percent good for you. But it can help with a lot of different stuff in life. Very prominent people use this drug, but in hiding. Reason be people tend to judge you. and think that your life and or perception of life is less valued then theirs. Which is incorrect, They...we use this drug to express not only our freedom in this world, but our freedom of life as well.

Everyone has an addiction, every addiction has some sort of bad side effect. Its how you choose to live your life, and not change the person you are inside. As long as you keep the ability to perform daily life tasks, keep true to yourself, family and friends....and join the ranks of lessor evil people, you should not be judged on what you do to ease the edge of life.

[xander]

The fact that you argue that some illegal drugs are somehow more "healthy" than legal drugs shows that you're missing (part of) the point.

Actually, that wasn't the point I was making at all. The point that I was making is that the health effects of tobacco and pot are similar, yet pot is banned, and tobacco is not. They are both dangerous substances -- why is one banned and the other not? A similar argument can be made regarding alcohol and marijuana.

Mostly during high school I knew several people who were heavy smokers (tobacco) and several who occasionally smoked pot. Point of fact his that none of the heavy smokers, while clearly addicted, never acted odd. On the other hand, after smoking a couple of joints a friend of mine remarked that "it feels like I'm flying".

Then shall I compare pot to alcohol? Both make you stupid for a term. Neither really belongs in the hands of high school students. Both will cause your grades to suffer if you go to class high/drunk. Both will make your work suffer if you go to work high/drunk.

ctually I can Science says there are 2 main stages of addiction: psychological and physycal. "One beer a week" shows that one's on a first stage As well as those that can't imagine New Year, birthday, etc. without champagne.

Your definition of alcoholism/addiction is so stretched as to be meaningless. Addiction is a pathology/disease. If you classify everyone who has a beer from time-to-time (and one beer per week is certainly from time-to-time), then you dilute the power of addiction as a diagnostic tool.

Also, the two forms of addiction that you outline are not stages of addiction. It is possible to be chemically dependent on a substance (physically addicted) without being psychologically addicted, and vice versa. There is very little evidence that THC is physically addictive, but it seems to be quite psychologically addictive. Nicotine is something of the reverse.

xander

[shinygerbil]

I have a fairly mixed opinion of drugs.

It depends very much on setting. For example:

Recently my housemates had some friends over, who brought with them many hash brownies, for immediate consumption. They then proceeded to...watch an entire box set of Black Books, which - while amusing - is not really something I'd want to do all in one go. Especially considering they had all seen the whole thing already. They said the next day that they weren't actually planning on watching the entire thing, but they were all too sleepy from the lovely drugs to move.

So what was the point of that? Really. A waste of time and money, and they didn't even want to be doing it. I wisely decided to go see my girlfriend instead.

On the other hand, I do not deny the lubrication factor of alcohol, just to make you smile and laugh that little bit more, on a night out. Just to *enhance* one's evening, so to speak. It's not necessary, but it's pleasant. And alcohol tastes nice, at least the stuff I drink does.

Drinking alcohol nearly every day is just wrong, though. I know people who do that - not to the point where they are sozzled and unintelligible - but just to the point where they're drunk and you're not, whatever day it is, whatever the occasion. They don't want alcohol, they *need* it - even if they are indeed capable of going without, but actively choose to drink. For what reason, I do not know. Because they believe fun cannot be had without alcohol? It certainly appears that way.


So, my message:

Alcohol, in the correct situation , is OK
Drugs aren't really that fun, so why bother?

Oh, and of course, like everybody these days, I have seen the effects of 'hard' drugs, and would not consider going down that road. (Although I hear that having sex on cocaine is a treat...)

[rus|Mike]

...

The point you're trying to make app. sounds as "if people drink alco/smoke tobacco then why the hell can't I use drugs, especially if I consider them less harmless??".
Well, becuase other's stupidity don't excuse your own. Pointing a finger at somebody saying that he's agressive under alcohol don't excuse you a SINGLE BIT. Even if you behave calm under drugs than someone under alco. Very childish.

You can't compare alcohol with other drugs in that way

I can Science classifies it all as NARCOTIC. No difference really. Your description of differences of drugs have no use. It's like telling how killing with a knife differs on the knife. No difference.

If you classify everyone who has a beer from time-to-time (and one beer per week is certainly from time-to-time)

It's not "from time to time". It's regular. And as it usually turns out, people just can't do without that one beer per week and this is here the addiction is.

Also, the two forms of addiction that you outline are not stages of addiction.

Oh well, excuse my English call them how you like.

[NZ ARMY]

I was a heroin addict for 10 years.

I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, but it certainly had it's moments.

[Feud]

If you classify everyone who has a beer from time-to-time (and one beer per week is certainly from time-to-time)

It's not "from time to time". It's regular. And as it usually turns out, people just can't do without that one beer per week and this is here the addiction is.

I agree with xander, a beer a week does not an alcoholic make. What if a person has one drink a month, one drink a year, or a drink every ten years on their birthday? Those instances are all just as "regular". Further, no one said that they cannot do with out the drink, perhaps they only drink when they are out to eat with friends, and due to scheduling reasons that means they get together once a week. In this case they reason they are drinking isn't to fill an addicted desire, or to stave off with drawls, and so I hardly think it qualifies as alcoholism.

Don't get me wrong, I dislike alcohol as much as the next guy (if you poke around some you might find a post or two where I advocate prohibition), but I think that your are wrong in your idea of what constitutes alcoholism.

[sfericz]

I have a fairly mixed opinion of drugs.
Alcohol, in the correct situation , is OK
Drugs aren't really that fun, so why bother?

Are you saying Alcohol isn't a drug?

Also I've been to the bars. and pubs. I would much rather hang out with someone who just smoked a joint, than a guy who's 'big shot' drunk and wants to fight.

As for not wanting to do anything. that is the ambition of the person using. I'm a hard worker and will bleed for what needs to be done, and smoking pot has never effected that motivation I have.

[rus|Mike]

I wasn't talking about once a year. In this case it surely means nothing. I was just trying to say that harmles 2 bottles of beer a week can easily turn out into something more. Actually this "once a week" case usually is drinking on weekend to relax. That pretty much means a guy can't relax without it.

I get the impression that you think that drinking once a week is really really little and totally harmless. Actually it's much.

[shinygerbil]

I have a fairly mixed opinion of drugs.
Alcohol, in the correct situation , is OK
Drugs aren't really that fun, so why bother?

Are you saying Alcohol isn't a drug?

I'm actually assuming people won't be pedantic, and realise that of course when I say drugs, I am referring to "drugs, but not alcohol"

Also I've been to the bars. and pubs. I would much rather hang out with someone who just smoked a joint, than a guy who's 'big shot' drunk and wants to fight.

But I'd rather hang out with a guy who's had maybe one or two drinks, and wants to be friendly and sociable than a guy who's just smoked a joint and wishes to giggle and sleep in a corner somewhere. My point being, of course, that with either substance one can have the "wrong amount", not everyone who drinks is your average British stereotype who likes to vomit, fight, vomit, fight, vomit and then fight their own vomit.

As for not wanting to do anything. that is the ambition of the person using. I'm a hard worker and will bleed for what needs to be done, and smoking pot has never effected that motivation I have.

But surely you only smoke pot when you have the opportunity to relax - you wouldn't, say, smoke it the morning before a big job interview.


Overall, it's swings and roundabouts, really. People have vastly different experiences. In my experience, a little alcohol can be enjoyable, but other drugs are just not.

[Xocrates]

The fact that you argue that some illegal drugs are somehow more "healthy" than legal drugs shows that you're missing (part of) the point.

Actually, that wasn't the point I was making at all. The point that I was making is that the health effects of tobacco and pot are similar, yet pot is banned, and tobacco is not. They are both dangerous substances -- why is one banned and the other not? A similar argument can be made regarding alcohol and marijuana.

Mostly during high school I knew several people who were heavy smokers (tobacco) and several who occasionally smoked pot. Point of fact his that none of the heavy smokers, while clearly addicted, never acted odd. On the other hand, after smoking a couple of joints a friend of mine remarked that "it feels like I'm flying".

Then shall I compare pot to alcohol? Both make you stupid for a term. Neither really belongs in the hands of high school students. Both will cause your grades to suffer if you go to class high/drunk. Both will make your work suffer if you go to work high/drunk.

Personally I don't care much for health issues legal drugs might have, since the ones using them do so at their own choice and risk. However, due to personal beliefs, I do not approve of substances that alter the state of conscience: This means that I pretty much abhor alcohol, as well as pretty much every illegal drug, but have little trouble with tobbaco (as long as they respect other people rights to clean air) since I've never seen someone acting dysfunctional for smoking too much.

So either you didn't finish reading my post, missed my point, or both.

To make it clear:

The reason why I think pot is banned and tobacco is not, is because pot affects consciousness to a much bigger extent than tobacco does, not health issues. (which is also why there is an upper limit to the alcohol in your blood while driving, but not one for nicotine)

Your point on comparing marijuana and alcohol is pointless because I personally do not approve of alcohol and indeed see no reason for it to be legal other than tradition. This means that if you argue that therefore marijuana should also be legal since alcohol is, I would have to agree with you other that pointing out that personally I think they should both be outlawed.

What's your point about the high school quote? I said that I knew folk that did that, not that I approved.

[Feud]

I wasn't talking about once a year. In this case it surely means nothing. I was just trying to say that harmles 2 bottles of beer a week can easily turn out into something more. Actually this "once a week" case usually is drinking on weekend to relax. That pretty much means a guy can't relax without it.

Well, if you add in extra details you can make the situation whatever you want. My point was that a single drink a week does not necessarily mean that a person is an alcoholic.

I get the impression that you think that drinking once a week is really really little and totally harmless. Actually it's much.

You are now ignoring everything I've said about my feelings towards the legality of alcohol, as well as my religious and personal opinions about the matter. Quite frankly, your impression is wrong.

[sfericz]

But I'd rather hang out with a guy who's had maybe one or two drinks, and wants to be friendly and sociable than a guy who's just smoked a joint and wishes to giggle and sleep in a corner somewhere.

I'm very sociable when i've smoked, and only sleep in corner's when rus|Mike whoops me in 1v1.

The sterotype of a pothead, is exactly that. A person could be high right next to you, and you not even know. The own person's mentality chooses how anything effects how you act. rather it be pot, beer, or a really nice night of making love. If a person can do nothing but giggle and sleep. or just sit on the coach and do nothing while on a subtance, they shouldn't be taken that subtance.

I have one question, if a man can use pot, behave and act normally, and is also responsible, is he a 'lackie' or someone less acheived than a mature man who doesn't partake in the usage?

No I wouldn't use before a big job interveiw. But I also don't use just to relax.

All and all, I still want to be respected in life, and with the people around me...without having to hide the fact that I smoke pot.

[rus|Mike]

a single drink a week does not necessarily mean that a person is an alcoholic.

Sure. Nothing means anything 100%-ly. I'm talking about the majority.

You are now ignoring everything I've said

Saying "you" I didn't mean YOU, mr. Feud It was more like 'you people'

stuff

If you ask me which guy do I prefer to spend time with, a drunken one ot just-smoked one, I'll choose being alone. It's better to stay away from both.