Animal Testing

The place to hang out and talk about totally anything general.

Are you for or against animal testing? (For medical purposes, not cosmetic)

For animal testing
24
80%
Against animal testing
6
20%
 
Total votes: 30
User avatar
Chimaera
level2
level2
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:21 pm
Location: Behind You.

Postby Chimaera » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:08 pm

Fix'd.

in my completely honest opinion, you take yourself way too seriously.
User avatar
rus|Mike
level5
level5
Posts: 2750
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:52 pm
Location: Russia, St. Petersburg

Postby rus|Mike » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:12 pm

jelco wrote:Is it really in contrast with speech like this?
(MOR) wrote:Or do you like to live on your hypocrisy and close you eyes?
(...)
And what's your goal to live? You dont see it or you trying to hide your weakness with the reasons that no longer exists?
(...)
In any case you massacre lives to stay alive.

Yes it is.
jelco wrote:You're right when you say there's no swearing in these lines, but the force ... certainly of the same level.

Force? Well yes there is force in his words, which is by all means good. And there is no force in words like "bullshit", "crap", etc.

jelco wrote: am not condemning anyone for their language. I'm telling someone to be a little more calm when posting. This is not only about style - it is also about respect and dignity in posting. I cannot simply read furious accusations lacking sense and say nothing, no matter if they're directed at me or anyone else out here.

While I was reading this topic, your words gave me discomfort and, like I already said, a feeling of disrespect to any reader. (MOR)'s words do not produce such impression on me.

jelco wrote:It is an unneccesary remark, brought about with a tone of dislike.

Yes, I officially admit, that I dislike people speaking unpolitely for no serious reason. Why using such words if the language provides means of explaining every thoght you want to explain without using them?
User avatar
jelco
level5
level5
Posts: 6018
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:45 am
Location: Cygnus X-1
Contact:

Postby jelco » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:13 pm

Chimaera wrote:in my completely honest opinion, you take yourself way too seriously.


Well, don't forget I'm just a teenager. Taking oneself too seriously is part of it :P. I just feel that I have some responsibility as a member to keep order as much as I can by my own - a feeling which is probably shared by most of the people around here.

Chimaera wrote:
jelco the galactaboy wrote:Criticising [MOR]'s opinion


Please realise that I am not criticising his opinion either. I'm criticising his way of posting. Actually, this gets me wondering if I'm doing any good: I haven't even started about my opinion and already created quite some turbulence (apparently).

@rus|Mike: I have no problems with you disliking swearing, or any people using it. However, I don't like the use of the word 'condolence' in this context.

rus|Mike wrote:Force? Well yes there is force in his words, which is by all means good. And there is no force in words like "bullshit", "crap", etc.


Force is no problem as long as it is justified. Here, it is pure anger for no good reason. About the other point: If you don't find my words forceful, then you won't have gotten the point. That is the only reason for me to use those words - swearing without reason is indeed needless. What reason can there be to swear? To show that you're serious, and to make clear that the reader should take his time to get the message.

I realize that the conversation is now turning more towards the use of language. This may be an important aspect, but just for the sake of the discussion: forget about my swearing for a minute. How do you feel about my remarks then? Do you have no problems with (MOR)'s matter of speech, or do you agree with me that he should change his style a little?

I am not asking this to avoid the subject. I'm just wondering if all this dislike towards me is also aimed at the actual content of my posts.

Jelco
Last edited by jelco on Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The ships hung in the sky much the same way that bricks don't."
- Douglas Adams
User avatar
xander
level5
level5
Posts: 16869
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:41 pm
Location: Highland, CA, USA
Contact:

Postby xander » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:24 pm

JESUS wrote:
xander wrote:(MOR), you claimed that medical testing is immoral because it kills animals. Then, in order to be consistent, you cannot eat meat. You probably shouldn't be wearing leather, either. So, I asked if you were a vegan, as vegans don't eat or wear products from animals.
xander


There is a difference . Animals that are farmed for thier meat and skin are killed in a humane way (I hope). Where as testing on animals can have a prolonged suffering affect on the animal .

Boy, I've got news for you regarding the farm industry... though that is really beside the point. You are basically placing the well being and comfort of animals over that of humans. Is that really the argument that you want to make?

xander
User avatar
Feud
level5
level5
Posts: 5149
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Blackacre, VA

Postby Feud » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:27 pm

(MOR) wrote:
Feud wrote:
(MOR) wrote: You believe that you are innocent if vegan? In any case you massacre lives to stay alive.


I never said that, nor do I think that vegans are any more or less guilty of anything than anyone else is.

I use "YOU" like "US"
Then, "You believe" = "We believe"


What group is included in "we"? Again, I realize that English isn't your primary language, but what you are writing does not make sense. It isn't a matter of "I disagree with the viewpoint so I say it doesn't make sense", it simply doesn't make sense.
User avatar
jelco
level5
level5
Posts: 6018
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:45 am
Location: Cygnus X-1
Contact:

Postby jelco » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:27 pm

@xander: To be fair, that is not what he said. His message is that animals suffer greatly for the sake of some human product (medicines, in this case) in contrast to other animals, used for other products (meat and skin) DON'T suffer. He is contrasting both 'kinds' of animals with each other, not with the suffering of humans.

EDIT:
Feud wrote:It isn't a matter of "I disagree with the viewpoint so I say it doesn't make sense", it simply doesn't make sense.


Everyone, this is important. I am getting the idea that this is the origin of loads of frustration about my latest posts.

Jelco
Last edited by jelco on Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The ships hung in the sky much the same way that bricks don't."

- Douglas Adams
User avatar
xander
level5
level5
Posts: 16869
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:41 pm
Location: Highland, CA, USA
Contact:

Postby xander » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:30 pm

jelco the galactaboy wrote:@xander: To be fair, that is not what he said. His message is that animals suffer greatly for the sake of some human product (medicines, in this case) in contrast to other animals, used for other products (meat and skin) DON'T suffer. He is contrasting both 'kinds' of animals with each other, not with the suffering of humans.

Jelco

Yes, but that is the ultimate comparison. Medicines should not be tested on animals, because they will suffer. However, if medicines are not tested on animals, then either (a) they are tested on humans, who will suffer just as much as the animals would or (b) diseases that these medicines are meant to cure will not be tested, and humans will die from lack of animal testing. So, ultimately, his argument is that human suffering is less significant and worthy of ending than animal suffering.

xander
User avatar
jelco
level5
level5
Posts: 6018
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:45 am
Location: Cygnus X-1
Contact:

Postby jelco » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:31 pm

I am guessing that he - like me - hadn't thought that far ahead. :D

Jelco
"The ships hung in the sky much the same way that bricks don't."

- Douglas Adams
User avatar
(MOR)
level5
level5
Posts: 2799
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:00 pm
Location: Morocco
Contact:

Postby (MOR) » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:40 pm

Jelco and Stewsburntmonkey, why you take the word "hypocrisy" of his literary sense? Why do you not use the word like when you live "joy, sadness, love ..." ? Why you let the word wrapped you? Why you dont have the power to see his real to be neutral? Why you let the influence touched your mind? Wy you put your self on a colorful world and each color draws your intention? Why you are fan of a thought and you are not his creator?

A simple question to see the hypocrisy that you live that I live that we live, what's your goal after all this? Your life your way your destiny ... You live or you are obliged to accept the order " live as I decided "?


Possible you do not cry for now, but you cry whene you feel a charming certainty invade your imaginary world, when your moon cant touch your night, when your evening never touches his dawn..



Xander I have already answered your question by "You believe that you are innocent if vegan? In any case you massacre lives to stay alive"

I'm a vegan, but not realy when I wash my hair with a shampoo tested on animals, when I wear my trouser-jacket-boots .. of leather before going out, when I take medicament, when and when ...

You can see only the food?
User avatar
xander
level5
level5
Posts: 16869
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:41 pm
Location: Highland, CA, USA
Contact:

Postby xander » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:50 pm

Ah... so you are only sort of a vegan. Then you are a hypocrite. Groovy.

By the way, if people were to stop eating meat, what do you suppose would happen to all of those domestic animals?

xander
User avatar
jelco
level5
level5
Posts: 6018
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:45 am
Location: Cygnus X-1
Contact:

Postby jelco » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:01 pm

(MOR) wrote:why you take the word "hypocrisy" of his literary sense? Why do you not use the word like when you live "joy, sadness, love ..." ? Why you let the word wrapped you? Why you dont have the power to see his real to be neutral? Why you let the influence touched your mind? Wy you put your self on a colorful world and each color draws your intention? Why you are fan of a thought and you are not his creator?

A simple question to see the hypocrisy that you live that I live that we live, what's your goal after all this? Your life your way your destiny ... You live or you are obliged to accept the order " live as I decided "?

Possible you do not cry for now, but you cry whene you feel a charming certainty invade your imaginary world, when your moon cant touch your night, when your evening never touches his dawn..


Anyone who can't stand me swearing 'for no good reason' should not read the following.

What the FUCK are you talking about?

Now, the last thing I'm going to say on this subject is what I said before.

jelco the galactaboy wrote:I am warning you: if you don't read this through carefully, and once again reply with something I don't understand, you don't have to expect a decent answer from me.
"The ships hung in the sky much the same way that bricks don't."

- Douglas Adams
Stewsburntmonkey
level5
level5
Posts: 11553
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:44 pm
Location: Nashville, TN
Contact:

Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:02 pm

(MOR), I can't decide if you just don't know English well enough to make yourself understood if you are just an idiot (or some combination of the two). Either way you don't make any sense. "Hypocrisy" is a word with a defined meaning. I try and use words according to their accepted meaning.
User avatar
jelco
level5
level5
Posts: 6018
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:45 am
Location: Cygnus X-1
Contact:

Postby jelco » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:05 pm

The above is the winning post of this topic. :D

Jelco
"The ships hung in the sky much the same way that bricks don't."

- Douglas Adams
User avatar
rus|Mike
level5
level5
Posts: 2750
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:52 pm
Location: Russia, St. Petersburg

Postby rus|Mike » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:07 pm

jelco wrote:I don't like the use of the word 'condolence' in this context.

Well I looked up this word in the vocabulary before writing it. What I meant is that I feel sorry that you ca't avoid this words and it would be better if you could, that's it.
jelco wrote:forget about my swearing for a minute. How do you feel about my remarks then?

I feel allright about them in that case :)
(MOR) wrote:I'm a vegan, but not realy when I wash my hair with a shampoo tested on animals, when I wear my trouser-jacket-boots .. of leather before going out, when I take medicament, when and when

I've never thought that term "vegan" includes anything besides not eating products, which are harvested by killing animals :shock: why can't a vegan drink milk?? And nothing depends on if you wear a fur coat or not :shock: :shock: the animal is already killed and not by you, so why not wear it?
P.S. Human must eat meat to be healthy and fit :D
User avatar
xander
level5
level5
Posts: 16869
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:41 pm
Location: Highland, CA, USA
Contact:

Postby xander » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:39 pm

rus|Mike wrote:I've never thought that term "vegan" includes anything besides not eating products, which are harvested by killing animals :shock: why can't a vegan drink milk?? And nothing depends on if you wear a fur coat or not :shock: :shock: the animal is already killed and not by you, so why not wear it?
P.S. Human must eat meat to be healthy and fit :D

Vegans will not consume any product that comes from an animal. This includes milk, eggs, leather, and even honey in some cases. I believe that the statement is generally one that combines sustainability (i.e. plant sources are more sustainable than animal ones) and animal rights activism (i.e. the way in which animals are raised is cruel, &c.). In either event, veganism is an extreme form of dietary restriction, which is only possible because of 10,000 years of agriculture and scientific progress. Unless tracked very well, it can also be quite unhealthy, in that many vitamins and mineral are hard to come by if you don't eat meat (calcium, complete proteins, omega-3 fatty acids, &c.). So, being a vegan also requires that you keep really close watch on what you eat, less you die of malnutrition.

Veganism should not be confused with vegetarianism. I know many vegetarians who are not militant about their vegetarianism. I don't know any vegans who are not militant about their veganism.

xander

Return to “Introversion Lounge”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests