Animal Testing

The place to hang out and talk about totally anything general.

Are you for or against animal testing? (For medical purposes, not cosmetic)

For animal testing
24
80%
Against animal testing
6
20%
 
Total votes: 30
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(MOR)
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Postby (MOR) » Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:20 pm

Feud wrote:
xander wrote:"Sometimes" you are a vegan? WTF does that mean?

xander


It means he's a vegan except when he eats meat, cheese/dairy products, etc. :D

Come to think of it, I might be a vegan also...



You believe that you are innocent if vegan? In any case you massacre lives to stay alive.
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Postby Feud » Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:23 pm

(MOR) wrote: You believe that you are innocent if vegan? In any case you massacre lives to stay alive.


I never said that, nor do I think that vegans are any more or less guilty of anything than anyone else is.
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Postby JESUS » Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:50 pm

Feud wrote:
JESUS wrote:And I still say test the drugs on the scum of the earth :x not innocent fluffy animals :P


I learned in a Troy McClure documentary that if given the chance cows would kill me and everyone I love. Plus, given their effort to kill of the planet through global warming, I say we test 'em till they drop.


They would only kill you and the people you love because they were tricked into thinking they were going to bovine university. . .
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Postby jelco » Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:01 pm

(MOR) wrote:*Loads of inexplicable crap about hypocrisy*


Let me explain to you what hypocrisy actually is.

xander wrote:I suppose that you are also a vegan, then?

(MOR) wrote:Sometimes Xander...


My friend, THIS would be hypocrisy.

My guess is you should start actually READING posts. If you do that, you'll probably not be posting bullshit accusations like this latest reply to Feud. This reply, and your reply to my Cleese quote also show you don't understand sarcasm. There's nothing wrong with philosophical ramblings, but stay focussed on what the subject really is.

Jelco
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Postby walrus47 » Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:08 pm

Well to be fair to (MOR) we do massacre lives to stay alive in that we kill a lot of animals for food and other things. Personally though, I don't see the problem with that.
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Postby rus|Mike » Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:09 pm

jelco, will you please speaking bad language?... (MOR) is giving his opinion in a polite way; you just show your disrespect not only to him but to whoever reads this topic.
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Postby jelco » Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:21 pm

Like I said, there is nothing wrong with giving your opinion, as long as you stay focussed (I'll translate: On-Topic). So I feel he is seriously beside the point with these replies:

(MOR) wrote:(In reply to my post)
This is a false logic

God want that we ate animals that humans kill his brother, that wars exist ... It was his wisdom, his purpose, his story ... But you? What is your role? Have you no right to say no, against? Or do you like to live on your hypocrisy and close you eyes ?

GOD want to live his history, but we are victims of this story, we are the true existence of this creation, without you me and the other no life, or existence or Creator ( the creator exists in the existence of his creation)

GOD exists on your eyes and without us God never touch their lives.

GOD touches their lives over you over us..

(MOR) wrote:(In reply to this post)
The hypocrisy is on your question

Why are you here? To feel that you are in community? And why? You can not live without the other? And why you need another? Because you have a complex? And why this complex? Because you like to live? And what's your goal to live? You dont see it or you trying to hide your weakness with the reasons that no longer exists?
It is hypocrisy to turn a blind eye to the weakness and live a moment that are not yours..

(MOR) wrote:(In reply to this post)
You believe that you are innocent if vegan? In any case you massacre lives to stay alive.


It is no crime to interpret posts seriously when they're meant sarcastically. But this should not result in false accusations which make no sense at all. Especially the last one goes way too far to my likes, and I feel I have the right to tell people that their behaviour should change. (Note that you also have the right to tell this to me, which you did - I'm not saying you're doing wrong.) In my opinion, I needed that language to get my point across, so I am not changing it nor am I taking anything back.

But seriously - 'bullshit' and 'crap' is bad language? Have you looked around these forums? :wink:

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Postby (MOR) » Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:24 pm

Feud wrote:
(MOR) wrote: You believe that you are innocent if vegan? In any case you massacre lives to stay alive.


I never said that, nor do I think that vegans are any more or less guilty of anything than anyone else is.



I use "YOU" like "US"
Then, "You believe" = "We believe"




jelco the galactaboy wrote:
(MOR) wrote:*Loads of inexplicable crap about hypocrisy*


Let me explain to you what hypocrisy actually is.

xander wrote:I suppose that you are also a vegan, then?

(MOR) wrote:Sometimes Xander...


My friend, THIS would be hypocrisy.

My guess is you should start actually READING posts. If you do that, you'll probably not be posting bullshit accusations like this latest reply to Feud. This reply, and your reply to my Cleese quote also show you don't understand sarcasm. There's nothing wrong with philosophical ramblings, but stay focussed on what the subject really is.

Jelco




Hypocrisy is when you show your self the beautiful fabric that does not exist in your certainty..

I do not post "Bullshit" (sorry for the word) as you say, the subject is the same is our "existence" and this topic is a small word on it.



Edit: Jelco, just you dont understand me, when I say "YOU" it is as I say "WE"

I know that we have not the same way of thinking, but if possible like I make an effort to understand you, make an effort to understand me and sorry :D
Last edited by (MOR) on Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby jelco » Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:36 pm

(MOR) wrote:Hypocrisy is when you show your self the beautiful fabric that does not exist in your certainty..


Just to make sure: Hypocrisy is saying one thing and doing another. I believe you are saying the same, but I just wanted to make this clear in case you're not.

(MOR) wrote:I do not post "Bullshit" (sorry for the word) as you say


Yes you do. I'm not saying that every word you type is garbage, I'm saying that some of your posts make no sense. In this case, I was explicitly referring to your reply to Feud, in which you accused him of thinking he's innocent as a vegan (although it remains to be seen if he actually is one) and are telling him off quite forcefully, whereas this doesn't have anything to do with his post in my opinion. Of course, you do say 'I use "YOU" like "US"; Then, "You believe" = "We believe"'. But you should have made this clear rightaway, for it is quite obvious how people would react.

(MOR wrote:the subject is the same is our "existence" and this topic is a small word on it.


I was warning you about philosophising to much. I don't understand what this is supposed to mean, let alone do I see how it is a reply to my post. If you want to be taken seriously, you need to be more direct in your answers. You can still say the same thing next to this, but without a clear answer I have nothing to reply to.

I am warning you: if you don't read this through carefully, and once again reply with something I don't understand, you don't have to expect a decent answer from me.

Jelco

PS: Seriously, has something changed here in the period I was gone? I almost learnt using strong language like this over here!
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:36 pm

(MOR) wrote:Hypocrisy is when you show your self the beautiful fabric that does not exist in your certainty...


No, that is not what "hypocrisy" means.
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Postby rus|Mike » Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:47 pm

jalco wrote:But seriously - 'bullshit' and 'crap' is bad language?

They make a contrast with (MOR)'s speach- that's it. Isn't it easy to speak politely?... I mean English is not the most rich language ever, but still provides rich oportunities to exchange just any word with something different, still making everyone understeand your thoughts.
jelco wrote:In my opinion, I needed that language to get my point across

But well, if you can't express your opinion without that words- there is nothing to discuss here :? my condolence to you :?
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Postby Chimaera » Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:50 pm

jelco the galactaboy wrote: criticising [MOR]'s opinion.


I actually think [MOR]'s posts were quite poetic. Couldn't really understand what he was getting at, but they had literary merit. I'd also like to say that i never thought I would be on a forum that represents a video game based on the mass genocide of innocent civilians agonising about whether we have the right to eat meat :)

On the point of human rights, there is no 'line'. The basic human rights, although I accept imprisonment to prevent further crimes and to deter crimes by other people, certainly do not extend to involuntary testing of potentially dangerous drugs, no matter what crime they have committed. Prisoners cannot be seen as a resource to take advantage of. I am not so sure that animals have 'rights' as such, and although of course the best possible treatment of all of nature is morally preferable to otherwise, animal testing is the lesser of two evils if involved in testing for medicine (not cosmetic products)
Last edited by Chimaera on Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby xander » Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:50 pm

(MOR), you claimed that medical testing is immoral because it kills animals. Then, in order to be consistent, you cannot eat meat. You probably shouldn't be wearing leather, either. So, I asked if you were a vegan, as vegans don't eat or wear products from animals. If you claim to be a vegan, I can dismiss you as a nutter. If not, I can dismiss you as a hypocrite. I just want to make sure that when I dismiss you, I am doing it for the correct reason.

xander
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Postby jelco » Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:57 pm

(MOR) wrote:They make a contrast with (MOR)'s speach- that's it.


Is it really in contrast with speech like this?

(MOR) wrote:Or do you like to live on your hypocrisy and close you eyes?
(...)
And what's your goal to live? You dont see it or you trying to hide your weakness with the reasons that no longer exists?
(...)
In any case you massacre lives to stay alive.


You're right when you say there's no swearing in these lines, but the force and rage in it are certainly of the same level. And however weak it may seem, I find that last comment ("my condolence to you :?") to be the same. It is an unneccesary remark, brought about with a tone of dislike.

I am not condemning anyone for their language. I'm telling someone to be a little more calm when posting. This is not only about style - it is also about respect and dignity in posting. I cannot simply read furious accusations lacking sense and say nothing, no matter if they're directed at me or anyone else out here.

EDIT:
Chimaera wrote:
jelco the galactaboy wrote:Insulting [MOR]

I actually think [MOR]'s posts were quite poetic.


Watch it! Remarks like these get me pissed. I'm not insulting anyone. I think there's another person who needs to read a little more careful.

As for the poetic posts - I've said this several times now: there's nothing wrong with commenting that way, as long as you stay focussed on the topic, and actually answer people. I haven't heard one single person say that he/she understood what he said. If that's the case, a post has no value. And if - on top of that - it contains the angry tone which I mentioned previously, that is reason for me to tell someone off. And so I did.

Jelco
Last edited by jelco on Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby JESUS » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:03 pm

xander wrote:(MOR), you claimed that medical testing is immoral because it kills animals. Then, in order to be consistent, you cannot eat meat. You probably shouldn't be wearing leather, either. So, I asked if you were a vegan, as vegans don't eat or wear products from animals.
xander


There is a difference . Animals that are farmed for thier meat and skin are killed in a humane way (I hope). Where as testing on animals can have a prolonged suffering affect on the animal .

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