homosexuality

[torig]

If he feels he's a bird, and wants to have feathers on his body, or have wings, whatever. That's fine.

I understand your point, I truly do. The question I wonder is why this would be more fine than some chap thinking he's Napoleon?
Surely, by the same logic, we should shrug our shoulders and just let him be.

I have friends that have had their dicks spliced open and beads inserted. I've seen pictures. Nothing is going to make me think, 'What the fuck?' more than that.

Aaarghhh. Mental image, go away
I can't begin to even see the justification for doing something like that...

[Pathy]

http://wiki.bmezine.com/index.php/Genital_Beading - Because it feels good. Don't click that link unless you want to see examples, by the way.

As for Napoleon, sure. Let him go about his life thinking he is.

There are times people need help, but it's impossible to make sweeping statements about them, or to draw a line easily. It comes down to the individual, and how they act. If the person thinking they are Napoleon can care for themselves, don't cause harm to others, etc, I see nothing wrong with it. That being said, taking on a specific personality I see further again from feeling that you would be a happier with yourself with an alternate body.

[Darksun]

It's a ridiculous analogy anyway, as pointed out. It'd be a purely psychological condition, since there's no way that he could in any way be a bird. Gender in humans isn't nessecarily binary though, a lot of things can 'go wrong' during development. These points have already been covered in more detail, you don't seem to be grasping it though.

A better analogy that you could use to make your point would be Body Integration Identity Disorder (I think?), which is a condition where people feel that part of their body, such as their arm, leg, foot, whatever, it's 'part' of them, and many resort (or try to resort) having it amputated. It has yet to be determined whether there is any physiological cause behind this

Personally, I follow the 'very simple principle' when it comes to things like this. As long as the actions of a person isn't harming anyone else, let him do it.

[xander]

yeah i remembered it from guns n roses too, it's on the intro to their song civil war

The phrase definitely originates, in popular culture, with Cool Hand Luke. Guns'n'Roses may have used it, but they came much later. Cool Hand Luke came out in 1967, to the best of my knowledge, Guns'n'Roses did not get together until the mid-1980s.

xander

[Ace Rimmer]

yeah i remembered it from guns n roses too, it's on the intro to their song civil war

The phrase definitely originates, in popular culture, with Cool Hand Luke. Guns'n'Roses may have used it, but they came much later. Cool Hand Luke came out in 1967, to the best of my knowledge, Guns'n'Roses did not get together until the mid-1980s.

xander

You've never heard Civil War? Shame shame.

Anyway, like I said let's get this egg thing going...

[torig]

Of course it's a ridiculous analogy, as pointed out also by myself.
At this stage I wasn't trying to make a point either. I was trying to grasp the points fully, while also trying to understand in which case someone would say "that's a mental disorder and needs to be treated" or not. Sorry if I upset anyone - but for what's it worth, *I* learned a lot and have a lot to think about, which can only be a good thing.
(but I thought I had made that clear by now).

[aoanla]

Other than that, I would be interested to look at the statistics for the number of recorded gender identity crises over time. Because they've obviously become more prevalent, so one would presume that previously any such characteristics must have either been beaten out of them or presented themselves in another way.

Doesn't that depend on the society, though? Some cultures have a tradition of "additional sexes" who seem to map onto some examples of what we'd call "gender dysphoria" or "gender identity disorder" in general. I'm thinking of things like the Indian Hijras, and the Native American Two-Spirits. (Of course, some Hijra claim not to be male-female transsexual, but the context of their gender expression is arguably different to that of someone in a Western context.)

[BrianBlessed]

Doesn't that depend on the society, though? Some cultures have a tradition of "additional sexes" who seem to map onto some examples of what we'd call "gender dysphoria" or "gender identity disorder" in general. I'm thinking of things like the Indian Hijras, and the Native American Two-Spirits. (Of course, some Hijra claim not to be male-female transsexual, but the context of their gender expression is arguably different to that of someone in a Western context.)

Well I was talking about European and American statistics in this case obviously, well not obviously...obviously. I was speaking specifically of societies and cultures where is a medically recognised condition, or whatever you would call it.

[The GoldFish]

Typically those people would be refered to as transgendered (not fitting into the binary gender model we tend to use in western culture), which as a group, only partially overlaps with those who are transsexual (though definitions may lead you to believe otherwise). Basically it's perfectly possible for a transsexual to not be transgendered, by them idenfitying wholly with the opposite gender into which they were physically born.