Doesn't lack of correct grammar bother you?

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BrianBlessed
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Postby BrianBlessed » Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:44 pm

Not only that but if someone is trying to argue a position, it is difficult to find their information credible when they cannot spell the words they are trying to use. While it is possible that said person could be highly knowledgable but have dyslexia or an inability to type correctly, if they were knowledgable they would have to have read thousands of pieces of literature in their various fields of interest. Aswell as writing various essays/theses/whatevers.

It would be hard seriously judge a seminal work if it was in terrible English/text speak/internet abbreviations, although no doubt at some point some will/has done it as some form of ironic statement. But frankly that's just worse. To analogise, the other people are stealing bread for their starving families, they're just doing it for a laugh!

N.B. People who misuse "they're" and "their/there". Getting their and there mixed up is marginally forgivable, but the person constructing the sentence knows they are using the verb are so how they lose the verb is beyond me.
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Postby xander » Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:00 pm

BrianBlessed wrote:Not only that but if someone is trying to argue a position, it is difficult to find their information credible when they cannot spell the words they are trying to use. While it is possible that said person could be highly knowledgable but have dyslexia or an inability to type correctly, if they were knowledgable they would have to have read thousands of pieces of literature in their various fields of interest. Aswell as writing various essays/theses/whatevers.

May I add to that: On a forum like this, there are many people for whom English is not their first language. When someone first posts, and use inappropriate grammar or spelling, are we to assume that they are illiterate, or simply that English is not their first language? It is worth withholding judgement for a bit to find out. In a professional publication, the language should be flawless, but that is what editors and proofreaders are for. On a forum, an occasional abuse of grammar is forgivable, as long as the process behind the grammar (i.e. the thought process or emotive intention) is clear.

It's all about context. ;)

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BrianBlessed
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Postby BrianBlessed » Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:11 pm

Well I find it fairly easy to tell if someone is writing in a second language, unless they are really good then only a lack of bizaare idioms will give them away, in which case they should not be ravaged for expanding their range of tongues. However in these cases, it is simply difficult having a coherent and mutually effective arguement if there are fundemental misunderstandings. Although it may seem like exaggerating when you are just misplacing a comma, in a situation when you are trying to explain/argue a point of something seemingly unknown to the person, then a simple mistake can cause the other person to completely misintepret the point.
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:15 pm

BrianBlessed wrote:N.B. People who misuse "they're" and "their/there". Getting their and there mixed up is marginally forgivable, but the person constructing the sentence knows they are using the verb are so how they lose the verb is beyond me.


This comes from people writing by simply copying words they speak in their heads onto paper/keyboard. This is actually how I write and all I think is the sound of the word, so there/their/they're are all exactly the same in my head when I am writing. I obviously know the difference between them, but all I think about when composing something is the sound of the word so I often mistakenly write the incorrect word.
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Postby Ace Rimmer » Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:24 pm

Stewsburntmonkey wrote:
BrianBlessed wrote:N.B. People who misuse "they're" and "their/there". Getting their and there mixed up is marginally forgivable, but the person constructing the sentence knows they are using the verb are so how they lose the verb is beyond me.


This comes from people writing by simply copying words they speak in their heads onto paper/keyboard. This is actually how I write and all I think is the sound of the word, so there/their/they're are all exactly the same in my head when I am writing. I obviously know the difference between them, but all I think about when composing something is the sound of the word so I often mistakenly write the incorrect word.


Interesting, when I 'say' or think word/s in my head, I see and hear them. I.e., 'their' produces an image of a person holding something, 'there' produces an image of someone pointing to a particular area, and 'they're' produces an image of a group of 10/20 people. The images I see usually take on the context of the subject without straying too far from what I have described.
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Postby xander » Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:43 pm

Ace Rimmer wrote:Interesting, when I 'say' or think word/s in my head, I see and hear them. I.e., 'their' produces an image of a person holding something, 'there' produces an image of someone pointing to a particular area, and 'they're' produces an image of a group of 10/20 people. The images I see usually take on the context of the subject without straying too far from what I have described.

"Their" is yellow. "There" is black. "They are" is yellow, then red. "They're" is orange.

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Postby jelco » Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:09 pm

I myself am still at high school, in the fourth grade (to give an impression, we have six here in Holland at my level). I'm 14 (I skipped a grade in primary school) and taking bilingual education. This means roughly half of my lessons are taught in English. I chose it because I am relatively smart (my IQ is 134, as far as I can remember) and I had always liked English. In fact, the largest part of the English I had learned before my 12th, I had learned by using the computer (including the internet, of course).

For those who want to know, I was in Ireland in May last year (during Defcon's test stages), to Malahide. This was indeed part of the bilingual programme. I went to Canterbury three years ago, and I'm going to Canada in two months (heck, time goes by quickly). Toronto, be warned!
But something you might know (by name) is the special certificate I will get next to my normal high school certificate: the International Baccalaureate. With it, I can practically go to any university around the globe.

Since I have always been rather good at English, I sometimes even correct the BBC subtitles, or the tests my teacher made. But also some people on these forums, who claim they live in the UK, the USA or Australia. I cannot distinguish every single dialect, but I know when something is simply wrong. It's something that's always been bothering me. People can make small spelling errors, but (stupid) plain mistakes are very annoying.

Now, I may somehow be repeating everything said in this topic, but I thought it'd be nice to give my story, after I saw this:
BrianBlessed wrote:Well I find it fairly easy to tell if someone is writing in a second language, unless they are really good then only a lack of bizaare idioms will give them away, in which case they should not be ravaged for expanding their range of tongues.
I'm not saying I'm really that good, but I think I don't have a bad reputation when it comes to English.

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Last edited by jelco on Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Star*Dagger » Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:46 pm

I dislike "FTW". Don't know where it came from, but I hope it falls out of fashion soon.

English is going through an unfortunate mutilation, with the advent of the internet. Accuracy is an important part of communication. I think it is being undermined by the informal nature of the internet.

We shall see.

Yours in Accurate Plasma,
Star*Dagger
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Postby Ace Rimmer » Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:58 pm

Star*Dagger wrote:I dislike "FTW". Don't know where it came from, but I hope it falls out of fashion soon.

English is going through an unfortunate mutilation, with the advent of the internet. Accuracy is an important part of communication. I think it is being undermined by the informal nature of the internet.

We shall see.

Yours in Accurate Plasma,
Star*Dagger


urbandictionary.com wrote:Originated with the game show Hollywood Squares where the result of the player's response is expected to win the game.
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast...
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Postby BrianBlessed » Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:05 pm

Obviously another argument for being anal over your spelling and grammar, would be for the sake of people for which English is a second language. With inconsistancies in grammar aswell as frequent spelling mistakes (not just by one person but frequent by the majority) not only is it going to be hard to understand for them, it may very well have a detrimental affect on their English. As they try to deal with what they understand as their own mistakes, but in actuality they are in the right.

On another note, you'd better not be one of those Dutch people with the staggeringly accurate American accent. They are just creepy on various levels.
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Postby Shwart!! » Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:29 am

What is 'FTW'? I am unclear about the defenition of this term.

Shwart!!
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Postby xander » Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:30 am

Shwart!! wrote:What is 'FTW'? I am unclear about the defenition of this term.

Shwart!!

"For the Win."

As stated somewhere above, it comes from the show "Hollywood Squars." In this show, nine celebrities would each occupy one square of a tic-tac-toe board. Two contestants each vied to win the game by selecting celebrities to answer questions. For instance, the X player might choose the celebrity in the center square. The host would then ask the celebrity a question. The contestant then had to determine if the celebrity had answered it correctly. If the contestant was correct, then an X would be placed in the center square. If the contestant was wrong, and O would be placed in the center square. If a contestant had two marks in a row at the beginning of their turn, they would, obviously, select the third square in the row by saying something like "I'll take Whoopi Goldberg for the win!"

xander
Last edited by xander on Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Shwart!! » Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:32 am

Hmm... helpful. Thanks!

Shwart!!
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Postby Chucko » Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:34 am

OMG S/BDY IS M/B ON THEIR COMP RFLMAO LOL LOL LOL
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Postby el_cascador » Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:41 pm

xander wrote:
Shwart!! wrote:What is 'FTW'? I am unclear about the defenition of this term.

Shwart!!

"For the Win."

As stated somewhere above, it comes from the show "Hollywood Squars." In this show, nine celebrities would each occupy one square of a tic-tac-toe board. Two contestants each vied to win the game by selecting celebrities to answer questions. For instance, the X player might choose the celebrity in the center square. The host would then ask the celebrity a question. The contestant then had to determine if the celebrity had answered it correctly. If the contestant was correct, then an X would be placed in the center square. If the contestant was wrong, and O would be placed in the center square. If a contestant had two marks in a row at the beginning of their turn, they would, obviously, select the third square in the row by saying something like "I'll take Whoopi Goldberg for the win!"

xander


A believe a certain persron, who is known as Matt Groening had made a joke of that in on of his shows, which is known as The Simpsons. That's right, the Springfield Squares.

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