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vanarbulax
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Postby vanarbulax » Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:03 am

I understand not your bizarre unit of temperature when the freezing point of water isn't 0 and the boiling point isn't 100.

Then again this is the same country which refuses to institute a base ten system of measurement and are forced to multiply/divide by 12/16/whatever for the simplest conversion while the rest of the world laughs and moves the decimal place.
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Postby bert_the_turtle » Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:28 am

Oh, come on, it's not like there were space probes lost because of dodgy unit conversions, let them have their quirky ways ;)
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Postby jelco » Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:31 am

vanarbulax wrote:I understand not your bizarre unit of temperature when the freezing point of water isn't 0 and the boiling point isn't 100.

Originally the Celcius scale had these turned around you know. :P

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Postby Pox » Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:36 am

Kelvin makes more sense than Celcius, but it's still based on the arbitrary values to do with state changes... as far as I'm concerned, 1 degree should be the tmeperature gained by a milliltre of water when it is heated with 1 J, rather than bringing calories into the situation as well.

vanarbulax wrote:I understand not your bizarre unit of temperature when the freezing point of water isn't 0 and the boiling point isn't 100.

Then again this is the same country which refuses to institute a base ten system of measurement and are forced to multiply/divide by 12/16/whatever for the simplest conversion while the rest of the world laughs and moves the decimal place.


Wut you talking about? Or are you transposing yourself into Englandland?
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Postby jelco » Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:48 am

Pox wrote:Kelvin makes more sense than Celcius, but it's still based on the arbitrary values to do with state changes... as far as I'm concerned, 1 degree should be the tmeperature gained by a milliltre of water when it is heated with 1 J, rather than bringing calories into the situation as well.

The "as well" comment doesn't actually make sense here. Calories and joules are both units for the same physical property.

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Postby Pox » Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:57 am

Exactly. We already have an SI unit for energy, the joule. The unit for heat should correspond without needing a magic number.
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Postby vanarbulax » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:02 am

Pox wrote:Wut you talking about? Or are you transposing yourself into Englandland?


No I was just saying that Fahrenheit isn't surprising in a country which still uses a measurement system mostly based on imperial measurements, at least England is making somewhat of an attempt at becoming metric.
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Postby bert_the_turtle » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:07 am

You also shouldn't include some arbitrary substance into the definition. Most sensible way is to give the temparature as the average energy of a one dimensional harmonic oscillator (that corresponds to just setting kB = 1), which is what plasma physicists do. There's a practical reason they're the only ones: everyday temperatures are in the meV range then.
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Postby jelco » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:09 am

bert_the_turtle wrote:You also shouldn't include some arbitrary substance into the definition. Most sensible way is to give the temparature as the average energy of a one dimensional harmonic oscillator (that corresponds to just setting kB = 1), which is what plasma physicists do. There's a practical reason they're the only ones: everyday temperatures are in the meV range then.

meV or MeV? ;)

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Postby enola gay » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:27 pm

water freezes at 32ºF and boils at 212ºF - which leaves 180º between - the same difference between north and south - entirely logical :?
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Postby bert_the_turtle » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:34 pm

jelco the galactaboy wrote:meV or MeV? ;)
meV. What I said :) For plasma physicist, it gets well into the eV range.
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Postby jelco » Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:05 pm

I just said that because during a recent 'competition' in class basically everyone forgot the difference between a small and a capital letter, except about three of us (including me). I found it amusing to see it mentioned on these forums the day after. ;)

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Postby Mas Tnega » Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:09 pm

enola gay wrote:water freezes at 32ºF and boils at 212ºF - which leaves 180º between - the same difference between north and south - entirely logical :?
But how does that measure up to anything meaningful? Does ice does turn and become steam?
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Postby xander » Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:12 pm

enola gay wrote:water freezes at 32ºF and boils at 212ºF - which leaves 180º between - the same difference between north and south - entirely logical :?

I don't remember what the rationale for 0ºF was (thought I think it was the freezing point of some element), but 100°F was supposed to be the average body temperature of a human. Fahrenheit didn't have the most accurate instruments in the world, and human body temperature varries a bit anyway, so 100°F isn't actually body temperature, but it was supposed to be. As to why that particular thing, Fahrenheit was, as I recall, a doctor, and needed a scale that would be practical for doctors.

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Postby jelco » Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:15 pm

xander wrote:I don't remember what the rationale for 0ºF was (thought I think it was the freezing point of some element), but 100°F was supposed to be the average body temperature of a human. Fahrenheit didn't have the most accurate instruments in the world, and human body temperature varries a bit anyway, so 100°F isn't actually body temperature, but it was supposed to be. As to why that particular thing, Fahrenheit was, as I recall, a doctor, and needed a scale that would be practical for doctors.

0ºF was a mixture of ice, water and ammonium chloride. The other point of reference was icing water (0ºC) and that became 32ºF. The third point was indeed body temperature, but it was put not at 100ºF but 96ºF.

I honestly fail to see the logic of this all. :P

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