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Xarlaxas
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Postby Xarlaxas » Sun May 02, 2010 10:41 pm

Well, it's a bit different from the DRM argument as you can't kill someone with Securom protection. ;3
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elexis
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Postby elexis » Mon May 03, 2010 12:07 am

It's only a matter of time before some disturbed child stabs someone over Ubisoft DRM-related issues...
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Feud
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Postby Feud » Mon May 03, 2010 12:15 am

Xocrates wrote:Quite frankly it's the DRM argument: having too many restrictions can be harmful for law abiding citizens, but it would be foolish to have none.


Or you could take the Stardock approach, and rather then punish the law aiders you provide positive incentive for people to do the right thing. :wink:
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Postby xander » Mon May 03, 2010 12:52 am

Feud wrote:Or you could take the Stardock approach, and rather then punish the law aiders you provide positive incentive for people to do the right thing. :wink:

Normally I wouldn't comment on such a thing, but I'm in a bad mood today: than. The word you want is than.

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Postby Xocrates » Mon May 03, 2010 12:54 am

Feud wrote:Or you could take the Stardock approach, and rather then punish the law aiders you provide positive incentive for people to do the right thing. :wink:

Which in the gun case would be...?

You know, the analogy kind of fails when you go beyond the general "should or should not exist" because then we are confronted with the fact that guns and games (and who should own them) are very different.
How do you reward gun owners for "doing the right thing"? What even is the "right thing" in this case anyway? If we consider the analogy the "wrong thing" would be to get weapons in the black market, which I doubt even you think would be a good idea.
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Postby elexis » Mon May 03, 2010 1:00 am

Xocrates wrote:Which in the gun case would be...?


Give the people with gun licenses free bullets?
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Postby Feud » Mon May 03, 2010 1:24 am

Xocrates wrote:You know, the analogy kind of fails when you go beyond the general "should or should not exist" because then we are confronted with the fact that guns and games (and who should own them) are very different.
How do you reward gun owners for "doing the right thing"? What even is the "right thing" in this case anyway? If we consider the analogy the "wrong thing" would be to get weapons in the black market, which I doubt even you think would be a good idea.


I disagree, this isn't about buying guns legally or illegally. Rather, we've been discussing responsible ownership.

The wrong thing (based upon my statement that people should seek education) would be to use a firearm while ignorant to the basic safety rules and skills necessary to do so responsibly. The right thing would be to become properly instructed on responsible use and ownership.

There are any number of ways to promote this, such as a one time tax credit for taking a State certified course, discounts at public ranges (many ranges here are owned and operated by the State for public use) for those who have passed a State certified course, requiring State certification to shoot on State owned land (including public ranges), sales tax reduction on firearms/ammo/accessories, increased medical insurance rates for those who have not taken one (similar to increased auto insurance rates for those who haven't taken driver's ed), etc.

Some people will do the right thing because it's the right thing, others will with the proper motivation, and I can think of few better ways to motivate someone than appealing to their wallet.
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Postby Flamekebab » Mon May 03, 2010 3:06 am

I wonder what happened to beno.
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Postby xyzyxx » Mon May 03, 2010 3:31 am

ZOMG
Some people talk because they have something to say. Others talk because they have to say something.
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Postby xander » Mon May 03, 2010 4:59 am

Flamekebab wrote:I wonder what happened to beno.

His lawyer probably sued someone. Or was that his father? I never really got the story straight...

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Xocrates
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Postby Xocrates » Mon May 03, 2010 11:45 am

Feud wrote:There are any number of ways to promote this, such as a one time tax credit for taking a State certified course, discounts at public ranges (many ranges here are owned and operated by the State for public use) for those who have passed a State certified course, requiring State certification to shoot on State owned land (including public ranges), sales tax reduction on firearms/ammo/accessories, increased medical insurance rates for those who have not taken one (similar to increased auto insurance rates for those who haven't taken driver's ed), etc.

That's all fine an well if you're a gun hobbyist, but with the possible exception of the medical insurance one a regular person would not be affected. What's the advantage of a tax credit when they had to pay for the course anyway? When I have such a big backyard, why should I waste money going to the shooting range?

I think your problem is that you assume gun owners care at least half as much as you do. My problem on the other hand is not so much that I'm against promoting responsible ownership, as I'm against promoting ownership at all.
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Postby Feud » Mon May 03, 2010 4:28 pm

Xocrates wrote:What's the advantage of a tax credit when they had to pay for the course anyway? When I have such a big backyard, why should I waste money going to the shooting range?


The tax credit's advantage is that you get the money back that you spent on it (perhaps more depending on things).

The backyard issue is, quite honestly, a really silly thing to say (I'll chalk it up to lack of experience on the matter though, which means that next time you visit within a hundred miles or so of me I'll have to take you shooting :) ). Very, very few people here have the room to have a backyard range and those that do rate so low on the accidental firearms deaths scale that it's virtually insignificant, since their kids are raised around guns like many are raised around a subway system. Those folks are also the ones usually teaching the classes, and so they've been to plenty themselves. Virtually all legal shooters either go to a range or shoot on State land.

Xocrates wrote:I think your problem is that you assume gun owners care at least half as much as you do.


I'm not sure what you mean by this.


Xocrates wrote:My problem on the other hand is not so much that I'm against promoting responsible ownership, as I'm against promoting ownership at all.


Well if you'd like to switch tracks we can, but so far I thought we were discussing methods of education and accident prevention.
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Postby ynbniar » Mon May 03, 2010 4:39 pm

"Guns don't kill people rappers do,
I saw it in a documentary on BBC2"
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Postby Ace Rimmer » Mon May 03, 2010 4:48 pm

Xocrates wrote:When I have such a big backyard, why should I waste money going to the shooting range?

Let's not forget that it may be illegal for that person to discharge a firearm in their backyard (state/local laws/ordinance). I know I would rather have my neighbor go to a certification course to learn how to properly handle his weapon rather than learning/practicing in his backyard, which may or may not border my own backyard. :wink:
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast...
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Feud
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Postby Feud » Mon May 03, 2010 4:51 pm

Ace Rimmer wrote:
Xocrates wrote:When I have such a big backyard, why should I waste money going to the shooting range?

Let's not forget that it may be illegal for that person to discharge a firearm in their backyard (state/local laws/ordinance). I know I would rather have my neighbor go to a certification course to learn how to properly handle his weapon rather than learning/practicing in his backyard, which may or may not border my own backyard. :wink:


Indeed, most urban areas say you can't discharge a firearm within city limits except at a range, and most rural/county areas have laws saying you can't shoot within so many yards of a residence (usually anywhere from 200 yeards to half a mile).

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