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Feud
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Postby Feud » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:23 pm

Jordy... wrote:Really? Who gives a fuck, you criticize someone for short-term thinking while not mentioning the culture and upbringing of the kids that will tease him with his name?!

The name is cool, and if other people find like they should tease him because of his name then those guys are weird together with there parents. It's not like we have it in our genetic code to tease people with weird names, so if anything, this men brings up an issue we should seriously talk about, which is the shift to selfishness and insecurity in our culture


Whether or not the kids who will tease him are right or wrong (and there's arguments for both sides of whether such teasing is serves a larger public good, and whether such is natural for humans, whether due to biological or social genetics) is immaterial. Whether or not society should or shouldn't accept such names isn't particularly germane to this argument either.

The fact is: if he's going to grow up in a normal western environment, he will most likely be teased if he has a name like "Megatron". Right or wrong, it will likely happen, and any half intelligent parent would realize that.

Now, there are a lot of good reasons to give a kid an unique name. It might be a family name, or it might be meant to form a connection with longstanding cultural, ethnic, historical, or religious ideas or people. Might the kid get teased? Sure. But the connection to their past might be more important than whatever temporary hazing and heckles they might receive on the playground.

Naming them after a distinctive pop culture item, however, is in my opinion, selfish.
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Postby xander » Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:20 am

Feud wrote:...and there's arguments for both sides of whether such teasing is serves a larger public good

Seriously? I would love to hear an argument for why teasing a child because they have a strange name is good for society.

Feud wrote:Now, there are a lot of good reasons to give a kid an unique name. It might be a family name, or it might be meant to form a connection with longstanding cultural, ethnic, historical, or religious ideas or people. Might the kid get teased? Sure. But the connection to their past might be more important than whatever temporary hazing and heckles they might receive on the playground.

Naming them after a distinctive pop culture item, however, is in my opinion, selfish.

I don't see how naming a child Megatron is any more selfish than naming a child [Whatever] Jr. I also don't see how naming a child Megatron is not naming a child after something with which they have a strong cultural connection. For a lot of people from my generation, Saturday morning cartoons represent a major part of our shared cultural heritage. We grew up on Transformers, Thundercats, and He-Man. While I would never name a child after a cartoon character, I don't see how it is any worse than naming a child after an elf from Lord of the Rings (I have a cousin with such a name), a character out of the Bible (there are lots of those names), or something made up (unique names are very common in black communities in the US).

Moreover, to the child and his or her peers, I see no reason to believe that they would recognize Megatron as a cartoon character, and would have no particular reason to tease the child. Imagine this child in kindergarten---it is likely that most of his peers will not have seen the Michael Bay movies, nor do I think it probable that they will have seen the 80s cartoon. To them, it will just be another name. It would be several years before the Transformers reference became relevant (if ever), by which time the name of the child would have been normalized among his peer group.

xander
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Postby jelco » Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:00 am

I don't agree that names coming from something like Lord of the Rings and the Bible are the same. Biblical names have been done for centuries so have become pretty common, and they're names people are now used to. An elven name is unusual and thus raises questions. I do think they have a tendency to sound more like an actual name (of course I don't know about this particular case, but the average name in LOTR actually sounded like a name) than anything ending in "tron" which is more likely to sound like a piece of machinery. (I'm reminded of the word 'magnetron', which may not be a word you often hear in daily conversation, but here in Holland that's the word for microwave.)

Honestly this is the same with e.g. language. Some people feel the need to point out every single flaw in others' use of language by the book (including, I have to admit, yours truly), occasionaly ignoring the fact that language is shaped by the way people use it. Once something enters common usage it becomes accepted even though the rules may at that point not yet reflect this; usually the rules are later changed to include this. The most obvious example is the introduction of the verb 'to google' in most dictionaries. Although obviously language has written an unwritten rules that are at odds with each other while names are all about unwritten rules, you can loosely interpret this in a way to apply to both cases.

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Postby trickser » Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:18 am

xander wrote:
Feud wrote:...and there's arguments for both sides of whether such teasing is serves a larger public good

Seriously? I would love to hear an argument for why teasing a child because they have a strange name is good for society.


For a society its good to separate itself form non-members, because if there is no outside, then there is no inside. And even inside a society its good to practice this by staging sub-societies, so you always know how to deal with the outside. Well, bad luck for the example material, but its an argument.
xander wrote:
Feud wrote:Now, there are a lot of good reasons to give a kid an unique name. It might ...
Naming them after a distinctive pop culture item, however, is in my opinion, selfish.

I don't see how naming a child Megatron is any more selfish than naming a child [Whatever] Jr.
xander

IHMO its selfish to take all the fame a child can have later on, while growing, just with his name (like it can be famous for his nose, his laughing, his red angered face, and so on). Well to take it for oneself, to make a facebook event. For the child itself its unknown if the event will have a positive or negative meaning, but the child will probably be forced to evaluate it, and well, he was named to impress some facebook buddies.
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Postby Feud » Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:48 am

xander wrote:
Feud wrote:...and there's arguments for both sides of whether such teasing is serves a larger public good

Seriously? I would love to hear an argument for why teasing a child because they have a strange name is good for society.


The idea behind the theories isn't really that teasing a particular child is good for society, rather that teasing in general can be. The idea is that such teasing promotes broad social stability by reenforcing homogeneity within the group culture. Those who act in such a way as to differ from the group upset the group balance, and so the group uses social pressures to bring them back within the social norms.

The notion of multiculturalism existing in a long term, stable, equal society is relatively new. While it may be better than what's done before, cultural preservation played a much greater role in societies before ours, with thousands of years or cultural momentum behind it. Teasing, as well as other forms of social pressure, thus act as bumper pads (if you will) to inhibit deviant behavior.

Personally, I think it's an interesting notion, but I'm not sold on it.
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Postby vanarbulax » Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:29 am

We all "tease" in some way, whether it be something as petty as music or clothing, or something more important like politics or environmental impact we all use some form of social coercion to make people act that way they want them too. Obviously that's pretty far divorced from making fun of a kid's name but I believe it's the same sort of principle.
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Postby Ace Rimmer » Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:02 am

Hate to break up such a stimulating conversation, however, I feel I must mention the film Space Battleship Yamato (the 2010 live action film, not the anime/videogame). It's Japanese sci-fi and overlooking some cliches and a bit of overacting, it's a great movie. Watch it.
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Postby zjoere » Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:02 am

xander wrote:I really want to have twins. I would name one of them Control, and the other Variable.

xander


You should have triplets. Then you can name them Control, Alt and Delete. If you're bored with them you can just him them at the same time to reset.
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Postby Mas Tnega » Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:40 am

zjoere wrote:
xander wrote:I really want to have twins. I would name one of them Control, and the other Variable.

xander


You should have triplets. Then you can name them Control, Alt and Delete. If you're bored with them you can just him them at the same time to reset.
No, he should definitely stick with Control and Variable. Better to be teased by science teachers than Mac and Linux people. By the time the science teacher makes out it's funny, the rest of school will be aware enough of the fact that science teachers can't possibly know a good joke and ignore it.

Besides, for xander it's more appropriate to name them Command, Period and Spacebar.
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Postby Montyphy » Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:14 pm

jelco wrote:
Montyphy wrote:There weren't any backup transmitters in case of this very thing happening? :/

Well basically, there's backup transmitters, backup power sources, etc - but everything's been made redundant on the same towers. They're mostly contingencies for when the original hardware fails, but not much more than that. This particular scenario apparently wasn't in their list of expected possibilities.


Must be nice living in a country that doesn't have a government which is in constant fear of terrorism.
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Postby jelco » Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:32 pm

I just remembered thi[i] :twisted:

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Postby Jordy... » Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:43 pm

Ow, we don't but our governors do, just recently an argument from our prime minister to sent police officers to Afghanistan was accorded by the notion that we don't want boeing 747's flying into the governments workspace...

Like yes, we really need to stabilize Afghanistan our terror may come our way.. were did I hear that before? Ow yes, it was that monkey called Bush, I thought we by now all established that he was a plain idiot so no reason to copy his propaganda.

Also, we have body scanners on our airports, internet data and telephone data are stored, transportation data gets stored, we are actually one of the countries that relatively taps the most phone lines in the world and we got a shit load of cameras, fingerprint database and coupled databases with mining programs... ow boy are we in fear for those scary terrorists...

Also, on the topic of society and the benefits of teasing, yes perhaps you are right that teasing might help establish a stronger group culture and this in return can help for better survival options, especially in times of scarcity. But, how we evolutionarily evolved might not necessarily the best way to live. On the contrary sometimes with our world so rapidly changing it can be counter-productive to stick to old values. We've all seen what: "Te idea is that such teasing promotes broad social stability by reenforcing homogeneity within the group culture" can lead to disastrous results, on really any scale, be it on the schoolyard or the fight between the religions or ideals.

Perhaps this was useful in a time where basic resources were scarce, but this is no longer the case, and even if this would return then perhaps we could overcome our instinct and realize that living might not necessarily be better then sharing your food with your neighbor.

All in all, I can understand the principle but the fact that it is there does not necessarily means we should cling to it and I do believe because of our rapidly changed world that our instinctive behavior has manifested itself in disturbed and malfunctions ways.
And if only one person realizes that it's ridiculous to tease someone for his name (in a bad way) then I think this whole action was worth it.
May the kid pay the price? Perhaps, but I believe no one is capable of calculating what's best for that child and holding to the norm seems lame to me.
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Postby Feud » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:29 pm

Montyphy wrote:Must be nice living in a country that doesn't have a government which is in constant fear of terrorism.


Jordy... wrote:Ow, we don't but our governors do


:P

Jordy... wrote:Ow yes, it was that monkey called Bush, I thought we by now all established that he was a plain idiot so no reason to copy his propaganda.


I find your argument to be unconvincing.
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Postby trickser » Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:51 pm

Jordy... wrote:And if only one person realizes that it's ridiculous to tease someone for his name (in a bad way) then I think this whole action was worth it.

I am pretty sure Megatron will figure it. :lol:
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Postby Deepsmeg » Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:07 pm

Thesadthing is this is not the first of these groups, nor will it be the last.
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