Darwinia Launch on Steam!

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Postby Varsity » Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:57 pm

Darksun wrote:Yeah, and I mean, there's no security risk with running Windows either! Why would one of the world's biggest software companies do that? thats insane.
Steam is a closed system that uses a proprietary protocol to download from internal servers, not an operating system. It's no more of a security risk than an MMO client, in fact probably far less.

equk wrote:Steam don't provide any linux native client, I'm pretty sure they don't provide support for cedega running users either :?
It exists and is used to manage accounts and other backend tasks. You're right about support though.

You will need steam to run darwinia, so does every other game on steam. even codename gordon
Actually it doesn't. You can close Steam and run it from SteamApps/account/Codename Gordon. The guy behind it either didn't or couldn't (it is a Flash program after all) integrate the Steam code. :)
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Postby Darksun » Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:07 pm

Varsity wrote:Steam is a closed system that uses a proprietary protocol to download from internal servers, not an operating system. It's no more of a security risk than an MMO client, in fact probably far less.


There is a potential there though. Some people might not want software connecting to the internet unless they explicitly trust it.
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Postby Varsity » Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:15 pm

Then they'd better lose out. :P
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Postby The GoldFish » Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:33 pm

Varsity wrote:All Steam does during gameplay is provide a filesystem. It slows loading a little for the benefit of handling each game as a single, portable file.
Yes, congratulations for making my point. It shouldn't in any way tarnish performance. Some people find it does. I suppose that makes you right somehow?

Everyone needs to remember that Darwinia is not HL2, we have no information about the format it will be in, in effect, how steamed it will be. A more appropriate comparison would probably be with the release of Rag Doll Kung Fu, which as far as I'm aware has not had much in the way of performance complaints re the running of steam.

Otherwise the 'arguements' that are coming up relate to;

a) linux users can't as readily use steam (which doesn't matter as the linux version is still availible via IV)
b) steam is often considered obtrusive (though we don't know how protected Darwinia via steam will be) - I think many people are over reacting to the news of the steam deal when they don't know enough about it. (see slashdot for plenty of examples)
c) not all windows uses can use steam, and are effectively losing out on this deal, which doesn't exactly seem fair. However, for that Darwinia gets a very large audience (the problem has not been the high scoring reviews, it's getting people to realise it actually exists) - I'm sure this bothers you more if you're affected. I'm sure you're probably still bothered from not being able to play HL2 if this has affected you since then, too.
-- The GoldFish - member of former GIT and commander in chief of GALLAHAD. You could have done something, but it's been fixed. The end. Also, play bestgameever!
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Postby KF » Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:47 pm

Well you do realise that most steam games will require a CD key, if bought from a shop (most likely a game shop) buying online, idk, have yet to try. But i think you guys (IV) should incorprate a CD-KEY system into darwinia so its more annoying for torrentors to use.

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Postby Varsity » Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:47 pm

The GoldFish wrote:Yes, congratulations for making my point. It shouldn't in any way tarnish performance. Some people find it does. I suppose that makes you right somehow?
I assumed you mean people found lower performance in Vampires and blamed it on Steam, and the same for sound problems.
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Postby KF » Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:49 pm

Well, idk what takes up so much processing power from snds, its all just big explosions, cats in pain and other things that i could hear from the demo.

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Postby Dave2 » Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:08 pm

KF wrote:But i think you guys (IV) should incorprate a CD-KEY system into darwinia so its more annoying for torrentors to use.

CD keys only really work with multiplayer games. With an offline CD key check, people just distribute them. With an online CD key check, people get really pissed off that a single player game requires them to connect to the Internet - and rightfully so. And, of course, you then need to maintain CD key checking servers.
Don't think about The Game.
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Postby Tortanick » Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:30 pm

Just out of curiosoty why is everyone so sure that the darwinia will not be released as is without modification?
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Postby andrewas » Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:56 pm

KF wrote:Well you do realise that most steam games will require a CD key, if bought from a shop (most likely a game shop) buying online, idk, have yet to try. But i think you guys (IV) should incorprate a CD-KEY system into darwinia so its more annoying for torrentors to use.


Its a little late for that, the games been out for months.

Anyway. Ive approached piracy and copy protections from both sides of the game - and let me tell you, all offline protections are equally trivial for the end user to bypass. Oh, it takes some effort to crack, say, StarForce off of a game, but the end user merely runs the crack program or keygen written by the cracker.

Online protections can be anoter matter. If only one copy of a given key can be active at once, then you cant play on legal servers. Illegal servers exist for some games, but they're harder to find. So multiplayer games can benefit from keys, to an extent.

But as Darwinia is solely a single player game, there are no strong protections for it, and what protections are available do more to annoy the legit customer than the pirate. IV made the choice not to copy protect Darwinia, and I believe they were correct in that decision. The fake Warez copy distributed by members of this forum has done more to dissaude piracy than StarForce, SecuROM or anything along those lines could have done.
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Postby Ebola » Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:26 pm

yay starforce, let's not get any ideas here...

Personally, it's interesting that IV have decided to make a deal which will allow them to release Darwinia over steam, and hopefully reach a wider audeince than they previously could. I'm sure I can talk more people into buying it solely for that reason, instead of dragging them to my local game and holding my little speech, which seems to grow longer every time I tell it.
Some people will be affected by it, but I'm sure IV will work out some way in which they can deal with those people as time progresses, and we know the full details of how Steam is going to implement it.
As for myself, I don'r have any problems regarding steam because I use the Linux version of Darwinia, and the only reason I use steam under Cedega is when someone bugs me into playing CS:S with them and I decide to give in. However the performance drop doesn't make playing any HL2 games worth playing, at least in my case, but this isn't about cedega or steam, this is about Darwinia.
I'm sure sales will increase through the Steam deal and that's the most important reason in my oppinion, getting IV known...

As for the copy protection, I agree with Dave2, CD key verification is a pain in the arse if you have to go online just to be able to play a single player game.


Anyway, this is my first post in a while so, I guess that's all from me for an even longer time.

*goes to take a shower after using the forums instead of IRC*
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Postby KF » Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:16 am

My steam uses about 9K of mem. (out of 47, it is the 4th, 1st is firefox with 48k)

My CPU usage is at 10-20% and, the hl-launcher (the game from steam/valve usually cstrike) takes about 90-102K. Altho it does seem alot, it goes smooth with 90-100fps

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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:50 am

That would be 9MB. . . 9K(B) would be impressive. :)
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Postby UndeadScottsman » Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:09 am

Dred_furst wrote:You will need steam to run darwinia, so does every other game on steam. even codename gordon
Actually you don't need Steam running to play Codename Gordon. Just a FYI. :D

Varsity wrote:
The GoldFish wrote:Yes, congratulations for making my point. It shouldn't in any way tarnish performance. Some people find it does. I suppose that makes you right somehow?
I assumed you mean people found lower performance in Vampires and blamed it on Steam, and the same for sound problems.


Another FYI; the Vampire game ran like crap (Far worse than HL2) and does NOT use Steam. Likewise, pirated "Steamless" versions of Half-Life 2 still have the stutter-bug, as far as I know.
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Steam and linux with a single purchase?

Postby Lionfire » Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:38 am

As someone who was just about to buy Darwinia when the Steam announcement was made, I can see one major point that hasn't quite been clarified.

If someone purchases Darwinia through Steam, can they then download the linux version and run that?

I'm primarily a linux user, but am happy to use Steam under Windows. One of the things that appealed to me was being able to run Darwinia on both linux and Windows. Am I therefore required to pay the extra US$10 to get the non-Steam version?

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