Game Debriefing: Ace Rimmer v Hyperion (Rounds x 4)

[Hyperion]

Welcome again i'm getting into these debriefings but decided i'm maybe writing too much for them? Anyhow Ace was above me in the Ladder tournament so i challenged him, knowing today is the best time i could play him considering im away for 2 weeks from Sunday and will undoubtedly be at the bottom of the latter before i return

We played twice. With a large number of spectators both games.

Game 1

Setting Up

Easy access server no problems whatsoever, acquired a mass of spectators (Xocrates, Schubduse etc etc) and began.

Defcon 5/4

Ace Rimmer - SA
Hyperion - EU

Didn't like my chances in this game given the ocean space (or lack of) to manoeuvre in and my lack of winning experience with EU, but i hadn't played Ace before so he didn't know my tactics...or i'd hoped. I'd actually been thinking of a new strategy for playing as EU and i decided to practice this to great effect

I placed all silos, radar, bases accordingly (see screenshot, i didn't lose any 1 radar dish i believe) i slid 2 groups of 4 subs straight down off the coast of Sao Paulo at different angles and left them there for future use. Now then...my new strategy...hehe...which for registered trademark use shall be named 'The Hyperion Web' i simply aligned all of my battleships (bar 2 groups of 3 at each wing) into single ship fleets and spread them out into 2-3 rows across the entire ocean...intended purpose being to be a detection grid...for which i would keep in-flight bombers constantly so should my spider web of ships be tingled i should unleash nuclear hell...also at the same time the ships are low cost should another player ocean nuke i also kept 3 subs back, in the case that he decided to rush my naval lines in order to target his fleet from the back of mine and turn them crispy

Defcon 3/2

Not alot happening, bombers in flight, fighter scouting, no naval confrontation as such. Calm waters.

Defcon 1

I launched all my bombers....from everywhere...most over my fleet in order to nuke the ocean in front of my battleship radar ranges and some from carriers over NA to hit down on Mexico and surrounding cities (very successful and all population ultimately minimal). Constantly sent bomber scouts over Africa to search for travelling carriers into the Indian or under the hilt of Africa, tactics which he never used. Eventually his fleet searched and caused friction towards my spider web of ships as my bombers and subs nuked his naval front lines and my frontline of battleships remained (i basically tried to keep him pinned to his coast). I eventually launched 3 silos and waited for them to distract his silos (in Feud formation ) whilst i simultaneously launched all 8 subs off his southern coast at every major population centre. I eventually launched my other 3 silos and fended off every bomber run efficiently...he managed to slip 1 sub by me next to Greenland/Iceland which i had covered with carriers 80% of the game...don't know how he did it (took out all his subs near east NA also).

He eventually launched all his silos but too little too late . I must point out that this game was a very hollow victory for me, my first time playing Ace and he said he had home distractions to contend with, he's actually challenging me now so i'll write the second game debrief after our third game, lol, if you follow...the second game was much better and challenging and will be worth the read



Ok so it's 06:21am now and i've just finished 4 games against Ace and i'm exhausted...i've been playing Defcon/on the forums about 10 or 11 hours tonight (you might think thats excessive but i don't get much time to myself for games so i make the most of it...i probably wont be able to play for another 3 weeks ) anyways...games 1 and 3 were comfortable wins. game 2 was excellent and very tight and game 4 was alot of timing mistakes on my part and not keeping an eye on my units, but i said i only wanted a quick game when he proposed a fourth, lol and it was quick enough. he won deservedly by about 50 mil (100 mil on the 200 mil setting we were using for the game). An excellent night and as soon as i recharge and can get some free time i'll be back to debrief zzzzzzZZZZZZ

[Ace Rimmer]

That had to be the worst game of my Defcon career ever, heh. Only 8.4m kills

I stepped away and came back to a victory timer of 16:54 or something and hadn't launched my silos. D'oh!

[Hyperion]

Game 2

Setting Up

So i was about to stop playing Defcon to write up some debriefs on my earlier games of the night as i had thought and misunderstood Ace saying he was going for a walk with the family after our last game...when infact he was just hurrying them out the door to play more lol (<<< exaggeration...maybe )...so i happily accepted his challenge and rejoined his server . No problems at all. Lots of spectators again , including my fast becoming favourite 'hi there O_O' seems to a regular in my games of late.

Defcon 5/4

Ace Rimmer - Africa
Hyperion - SA

Ace was ready this time . Full concentration so i was very happy to have more of a challenge indeed but i considered this game to be a battle of tactics as much as anything considering the proximities of our navies . Now i won't do this game justice as it was an intense affair and to be honest i don't remember my tactics for it but i'll do the best i can I placed 2 carriers at the tip of SA for sub penetration, a single sub below Portugal to take care of Cairo, 4 carriers (2x2) and 3 battleships in the Atlantic plus 1 near Cuba and spread the rest of my forces out evenly with 2 groups of 3 or 4 subs heading through the pacific along with 2 single battleships as scouts/sub guards. I decided one of my weak spots playing defcon was radar placement, knowing the good players will constantly hit these first if possible (my counter is usually if i know nukes are inbound to use navy/planes to increase my radar range for my silos) so i placed my radar more deeper as he'd try to take these i thought

Defcon 3

I made the first mistake in Defcon 5 and Ace made his in Defcon 4...i'd placed all my navy very quickly not realising he could place only a few of his in Defcon 4 for scouting and basically know where the bulk of my navy was and hence my weak spot !!!...as i started noticing battleships appearing in the Atlantic and right next to my other navy fleets...giving him (what i thought) was a distinct advantage which he didn't make the best of (so i thought)...I took care of those scouting navy ships in the middle of my fleets, knowing now he knew a bit of my naval layout.

From the start of Defcon 3 i emptied all bases and some carriers of bombers across my coastline and battleship lines expecting a full assault...i was not disappointed as he rushed Sao Paulo with alot of force and was deservedly punished for it with heavy losses i believe? i lost a few bombers in this defensive tactic however...and he'd scouted 2 silos and radar etc so i knew he'd come for them later on, he likes to hit those silos . Efficiency can be predictable...thankfully for me.

Defcon 2

Not alot happening...scouting skirmishes as he kept his now lessened fleet closer to his coast and i had most of defcon 2 to do as i wished allowing my pacific subs/battleships to position themselves excellently off his east coast.

Defcon 1

Things i did: opened up on Cairo with my lone sub. Used my Atlantic bombers to try and take out his 2 airbases/2 radar/1 silo i could see, little or no effect , 1 destroyed airbase, 1 hit airbase, i think 1 radar and a few cities...he later took care of those carriers i think with fighters . He came at Sao Paulo and the silos there as predicted ...with bombers, got a hit or 2 on silos but not enough and i dispatched with some of his bombers for his troubles.

I opened up those silos (making sure to defend them first) that i knew he could see as well as a 3rd from the north and targeted his airbase/radar/silo and cities and then almost simultaneously opened up my 2 sub fleets that had positioned themselves beneath India and the tip of Africa to coincide with the incoming nukes of my silos...he managed to take out my 4 Indian subs with 2 bombers, damned bad luck (my defensive battleship not better placed but it got the bombers eventually i believe stupid battleship) and only a few nukes got away, hits nonetheless. My southern African subs launched everything and almost everything hit. Large points to me. But lost all 4 subs after firing acceptable i thought.

Most of the game from Defcon 3-1 i was using my 2 SA tip carriers to scout my west coastline for subs from the pacific and i just remembered 2 of my Atlantic carriers survived as i used them to sub hunt around Cuba and near Mexico (i'd kept a battleship in cube incase he'd snuck subs there) and used my lone Cairo sub as a deterrent from entering the Atlantic.

The rest of the game consisted of scouting my oceans for subs in the west and north of SA and protecting Sao Paulo waters with fighter filled carriers. I finally opened my remaining silos to coincide with northern air base bomber runs and took more points. The only city i never hit was Kinshasa which would have given me a considerable lead by about 46 more points (my mistake). Towards the end of his game he launched all silos and a few bombers. Most of his subs i'd taken out under Sao Paulo after his initial head on naval charge and he'd targetted my silos and not my cities...another 'efficient predictability' i thought.

The score speaks for itself , it was a very enjoyable and very close game, the most enjoyable of the 4 games. I felt i deserved this win as we had no technical/distracting issues and it was gratifying after his...less than stellar scoring in game 1

[Hyperion]

Game 3

Setting Up

Again Ace requested to play and i was enjoying the challenge and we did the same as usual , set up, plenty of spectators, only [1337] WOPR stayed until the end.

Defcon 5/4

Ace Rimmer - SA
Hyperion - EU

Ha! we were both equally amused with this set up , lol, seeing as how it was identical to the first game, Ace himself stated this was fate giving him the opportunity to redeem himself (who was i to argue with fate ). I placed units identical to our first game...my new EU spider web tactic with small groups of carriers spread out behind my battleships (and 1 or 2 on the front line as i'd found out about this time from asking that carriers have a very large radar range, so i used this, and for false incursion scouting to keep him on his coast again). Again sent 2 groups of 2-4 subs straight down to Sao Paulo, 2 subs near Mexico and the other subs middle of my navy web should he try to rush me. Almost identical land based set up also .

Defcon 3

Nothing happening, just mode changing, scouting and positioning of units. Launched 2 full airbases of bombers and emptied 6 carriers worth of bombers across my navy web. They weren't needed .

Defcon 2

A few small scrapes against my navy web frontlines but nothing happening again.
Sent my New York based bombers over NA ready to rain down on Mexico again...learned from our first game however and launched adequate fighter support and placed battleships in front of those carriers for his fighters to deal with .

Defcon 1

Still no naval action, the odd push up towards my front lines from scouting battleships and bomber incursions but i had plenty to fill in the losses. I hit Mexico and surrounding cities hard at least twice before i ran out of fighters and he started to take some of my bombers .

Kept sending scouting bombers over Africa towards the western hilt and the Indian for sign of carriers...nothing found.

We both engaged in ocean bombing on our frontlines...neither very effective although his strategy was more risky/effective than mine...nuking at point blank distance at the risk to bombers.

I let lose with 3 silos and again coincided my sub fleets to nuke with the incoming hail of silo firepower...i think i lost 4 subs eventually but got most nukes away and got all the major southern cities effectively. I'm surprised he'd let me use the same tactics twice. I sent the remaining sub fleet back along the coast into the Atlantic (being careful not to put them on attack mode as he'd nuked my pinging subs in the past 2 games, i simply scouted for a stationary naval target and sent them on their way ).

I knew from the get go that with this set up again Ace would either rush me head on (which i prepared for ) or attack from an alternative angle (African hilt/Indian ocean)...i expected this...seeing as all of these options weren't apparently true i zoomed out and looked at the undefended oceans above NA and USSR, then it hit me "you clever b******" i thought, i quickly launched 2 scouting bombers at different angles over Russia whilst simultaneously sending a group of 3 battleships and 2 groups of 2 x carriers over Europe to defend near Moscow...filling the carriers along the way with fighters/bombers and made a defensive line of bombers behind my 3 battleships. GOTCHA!!! i lost the bombers but not before the silhouettes of battleships had faded from view...he was coming the long way around and buying his time in the Atlantic...i suspected all his subs were coming that way too . (i sent another lone fighter filled carrier above NA incase he sent his subs that way instead).

I pressed forward with my battleship/carrier defensive force to meet this new threat head on...and that i did with overwhelming firepower...lost my 3 battleships but used bombers and fighters efficiently and destroyed his battleships ...i then used my 4 remaining carriers to chase his subs all the way back to the Bering strait...he lost all 12. Phew . decided to send my now 2 remaining single carriers through the Bering straight for a diversionary tactic should he decide to launch later.

With the Atlantic fairly empty of my battleship lines i had only carriers left which i kept close to my coast and filled with fighters...he constantly attempted to nuke these and use fighters to take them out but to no effect under the combined AA fire of my coastline.

Then i got disconnected ...10-15 minutes resynching to get back in game ...the scores 292/-145 in my favour before leaving. Before this point i'd been using my carrier fighters to scout for angles from which i thought he'd bomber run me (over Greenland/Africa...he used both, Africa first then moved his angle of assault after bomber losses to approached from Greenland), i knew he'd go for my Iceland lone silo/radar first and made sure each run would cost him bombers...dearly .

I got back in the game after a long wait, thankful that he hadn't taken the server down...think he wanted to finish my CPU at this point don't blame him after investing this much effort in a game. I'd lost all defending carriers on my coast and 1 radar (bloody CPU ) but i had 4 bases worth of fighters and my 2 pacific carriers intact and en route past the tip of SA towards EU. He had consequently told me it was all but over for me (very politely) and i wasn't too sure myself but i was confident i could see off his bombers...i just didn't know the damage i would take from his silos (1 of which i consequently destroyed with my earlier silo nuking...by accident he'd placed 1 somewhere near a city .

The game ended...i hit bombers with fighters...he hit all but 1 silo.

Again a win i felt i deserved thoroughly and to be honest felt the 10-15 min resynching should have given him a better advantage (but perhaps he was being a gentleman and simply waiting for me to return ...whilst taking out my navy in the process ). Anyway...a very good game and enjoyable again.

[Hyperion]

Game 4

I won't write a detailed debrief for this game, i'll let Ace have the honour so after our last 3 games and about my 6th or 7th game of the night and about 10 hours online i was started to feel it...5am my time but he requested another game seeing as how the wife was asleep, lol...i was resistant to the idea considering the status of my now overheated/suffering laptop and lack of sleep but i rarely get the chance to play Ace and like i said probably won't get to play until i'm back from my holidays.

So i accepted stating i didn't have long for this game.

Ironically it was the same set up as game 2, only in reverse. I sent my subs (2x4) the long way round through the pacific with scouting battleships and 4 carriers. Launched my regular defcon 3 bomber runs over my naval lines and placed subs beaneth Sao Paulo. He rushed me head on in defcon 3, but ran straight into 15 bombers, i lost most of them but it stung his navy too.

I pulled the same carriers over NA trick and took out Mexico etc again and i kept 1 battleship south of Portugal should he try to sub nuke Cairo and other cities from there.

Alot of tiredness on my part...i wasn't watching my units after i'd given them target locations/purposes...lost carriers sent for scouting, battleships straying near Sao Paulo and the one that broke me was my timing...my positioning was all but right but i got 4 subs stuck on the land mass east of Australia whilst my others carried on forwards...this annoyed me greatly, lol everytime i launched it wasn't in timing and was the undoing of me.

Ace deservedly beat me although i expected it to be by a much bigger margin and i submitted my defeat. He then stated that he'd found the 'key' to beating me which i wanted to laugh at but had no strength to do so...not that he couldn't beat me but that there was a 'key' to doing so. I imagined he just meant rushing me head on with his navy...if my timing and patience had been better i think i'd have taken this game too but i was trigger happy and it was 7:30am my time by the time this last game finished. Feud of all people spectating

Didn't get a screenshot of this game, seeing as how taking a screenshot of my last game disconnected me but like i said, maybe Ace wants to write this one up *shrugs*

[Ace Rimmer]

Game two was certainly a close one, I think the closest I may have ever had in 1v1. Losing all 12 subs over Russia was a large blow to me as I was counting on them for the end game victory.

Game three, I made a couple of errors in target priority. I had enough bombers to fill those carriers at the end but the vic timer started before I would have liked and forced me to use my silos before I could make the most out of my carriers. I'm not sure

I almost closed the server down but hoped that Hyperion would rejoin so I waited. To my surprise and relief he did.

In all the games I lost, I attribute it to his sub hunting efforts and my allowing him to take his time with my cities. While I will make every effort to take out any and all bombers I can find, I have a habit of ignoring sub launches I know are targeting cities. Strangely though, I'll make more of an effort to take out the empty subs and nuke any that I find pining. Perhaps it should be the other way around? heh.

Game four was decidedly a "better" game for me, although if lack of sleep is gonna come into play, I had taken the day of because I had been up all night the previous night due to a late night of work, didn't go to sleep till 6:30 am, got up at 9:00 am to let them know I'd not be coming in. This last game was at the end of that day at 2:00 am-ish my time.

I'll have to get a screenshot to write a detailed report, which I don't have on me.

As far as a "key" goes:

1. I'd finally figured out his "web" tactic (which was hard to see before as he kept me from advancing to see enough of the bigger picture) and made a priority out of piercing his web enough to get him to stretch it out enough for me to take advantage.
2. With my usual placement of 3 or 4 ships per fleet, it's easier to use tactical nukes against me as those formations are tight and leave less room to move. His use of single ships on the other hand makes it hard to use tactical nukes, which is why one game I was doing it at point blank range.
3. The other games I had try to either use my subs in the initial attack or sneak them by his "web", this last game I did neither. I instead opted to divide one group of the usual four into two groups, fire them early and then have them join the battle after the fact. I had scouted enough to use both sets to take out a couple of Radar installations I thought needed to be removed and some minor cites. The other eight I held back so as not to lose them like the other three games.
4. Instead of tight groups of 3/4 formations or trying to counter his web tactic with a web of my own, I opted for three fleets of six (battleships x2 and one group of carriers) all together to punch through and scout, with a mini-web of single/small fleet of carriers elsewhere
5. Probably the most important part, heh, keeping him up long enough for him to get "sloppy".

The combination of a massive fleet (18 ships) with smaller "net" proved to be effective. Sort of a combination of the two maneuvers here:



Imagine you're S. America facing Africa and the "protected flank" is the large northern area of your territory that must be traversed from above (through AA and base support) and most of your "light infantry" (fighters) and calvary (carriers/bombers) concentrated on the right, or south in the game.

Either way, Hyperion, I've got your number!

[Feud]

I eventually launched 3 silos and waited for them to distract his silos (in Feud formation )

Feud of all people spectating

Wow, two eye rolls in one write up. Have I done something to bother you?

[Hyperion]

Lol, nah, just being paranoid i just hear your name alot associated with being a good player and fleet/silo set ups and find it amusing that everyone mimics your playing styles

Even you yourself said you were going to take credit for my sub tactics in my 4th game against Ace even though i know nothing of your tactics but the Feud Silo arrangement

[Feud]

\
Even you yourself said you were going to take credit for my sub tactics in my 4th game against Ace even though i know nothing of your tactics but the Feud Silo arrangement

That was actually a joke, you used your subs almost completly differantly then how I use mine, and I doubt my way is at all original.

[Ace Rimmer]

Well, seeing has I've beaten every "good" player here, except skynet77812 (only two game though, I think?) and (eu)Kudrigy (never played 1v1), except Feud (unless you count his CPU replacement), I'd say he's good.

Edit: Hyperion, I'm wondering what your thoughts on my response to finding the "key", heh to winning against you. <----little joke there

[caranthir.pkk]

Played a newb earlier who used the infamous feud silo-setup. After scouting his first three silos, I nuked all six (3 of them blind). It was very lol...

[shinygerbil]

Hah. And now we see the downside

[Feud]

Hah. And now we see the downside

Shoot, I coulda told you that three months ago when I started running into the problem. That is why I spend so much of my resources protecting my silos secrecy, and why I will often fire as soon as I think their location has been discovered.

[caranthir.pkk]

Hah. And now we see the downside

Shoot, I coulda told you that three months ago when I started running into the problem. That is why I spend so much of my resources protecting my silos secrecy, and why I will often fire as soon as I think their location has been discovered.

I do the same. Usually if someone manages to scout my silos I get bombers up to cover against subs and launch all out asap. Better empty than sorry. Probably shouldn't say those things on the forums though *looks around with paranoia*

[Hyperion]

Well, seeing has I've beaten every "good" player here, except skynet77812 (only two game though, I think?) and (eu)Kudrigy (never played 1v1), except Feud (unless you count his CPU replacement), I'd say he's good.

Edit: Hyperion, I'm wondering what your thoughts on my response to finding the "key", heh to winning against you. <----little joke there

As far as a "key" goes:
I'd finally figured out his "web" tactic (which was hard to see before as he kept me from advancing to see enough of the bigger picture) and made a priority out of piercing his web enough to get him to stretch it out enough for me to take advantage.
With my usual placement of 3 or 4 ships per fleet, it's easier to use tactical nukes against me as those formations are tight and leave less room to move. His use of single ships on the other hand makes it hard to use tactical nukes, which is why one game I was doing it at point blank range.
The other games I had try to either use my subs in the initial attack or sneak them by his "web", this last game I did neither. I instead opted to divide one group of the usual four into two groups, fire them early and then have them join the battle after the fact. I had scouted enough to use both sets to take out a couple of Radar installations I thought needed to be removed and some minor cites. The other eight I held back so as not to lose them like the other three games.
Instead of tight groups of 3/4 formations or trying to counter his web tactic with a web of my own, I opted for three fleets of six (battleships x2 and one group of carriers) all together to punch through and scout, with a mini-web of single/small fleet of carriers elsewhere
Probably the most important part, heh, keeping him up long enough for him to get "sloppy".

I'd say all of your key was accurate but i don't remember you punching through significantly in any game that i was EU (i would only use the web tactic as EU). And the keeping the subs back and firing from a distance was probably better against me as i always actively hunt/guard against subs but i'm more than happy for people to keep subs at a distance.

Lol, sloppy indeed...i just had less concentration that last game and i paid for it i made a habit of talking too much also instead of watching the game, lol but yeah...you adapted quite well i have to say