Introversion

Wiki:

The American Academy of Pediatrics stated in Pediatrics in 2004:
“ Sexual orientation probably is not determined by any one factor but by a combination of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences. In recent decades, biologically based theories have been favored by experts. Although there continues to be controversy and uncertainty as to the genesis of the variety of human sexual orientations, there is no scientific evidence that abnormal parenting, sexual abuse, or other adverse life events influence sexual orientation. Current knowledge suggests that sexual orientation is usually established during early childhood.[3][144] ”

The American Psychological Association, American Psychiatric Association, and National Association of Social Workers stated in 2006:
“ Currently, there is no scientific consensus about the specific factors that cause an individual to become heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual—including possible biological, psychological, or social effects of the parents' sexual orientation. However, the available evidence indicates that the vast majority of lesbian and gay adults were raised by heterosexual parents and the vast majority of children raised by lesbian and gay parents eventually grow up to be heterosexual.[2] ”

The Royal College of Psychiatrists stated in 2007:
“ Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person's fundamental heterosexual or homosexual orientation. It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice.[4]

Can we stop now, to "f*ck" around with gays??? As long as those gay haters have never stimulate their own prostate, I consider their childish opinion to be worth a shitpile made by flies.
BTW: Since god doesn't exist, gays will not end in hell...

heres interesting: http://socialinqueery.com/2013/03/18/no ... asons-why/ & http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/gue ... -a-choice/

Dantesinferno wrote:heres interesting: http://socialinqueery.com/2013/03/18/no ... asons-why/ & http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/gue ... -a-choice/

While those are of course interesting articles, they don't bear on the argument presented in this thread that gay people should not be mistreated because of who they sleep with.

It sure seems to me that the vast majority of gay people do not have any conscious control over their orientation, much like I don't have any conscious control over mine. That said, there's almost certainly some small segment of both populations that have conscious control over their orientation, and we shouldn't unfairly discriminate against them either.

It's difficult to say if sexual orientation is a choice or not but the problem is about the difference between identity and subjectivation. Nietzsche would wonder "who" would choose or "who" would be (I hope my english is not too much "maccheronic"). Who is the subject of the choice? Who choose? It's not a risible question.
Scientific researches can't solve it because they have an unintentionally presupposition inside. They are based on an unintentionally idea of subject that properly is the problem to discuss (science is blind about its fundaments).
It's a gigantic problem of knowledge and noone of us can solve it, but we can exceed it politically: with an intuition we can enclaps the complexity and love the human freedom.

Maybe It's a choice to be against this. Maybe It's a choice to be an idiot.

Laika_rus wrote:I used laptop with different IP for ghosting. I was fully understanding what i'm doing, and I banned other people for this on my servers.

Sad to have to read about this. For some reason we didnt fight each other often but i cant help feeling dissapointed.

Regardless of whether people are born so, they don't get the choice once it's set.

Colytic

Colytic wrote:Regardless of whether people are born so, they don't get the choice once it's set.

Colytic

Well, some people might get that choice. Human sexuality, and sex in general, is a complex topic in biology and not all of it is properly understood (even by experts).

One of the concepts I'd like you to take away from this discussion is that trying to find a simple, single cause to orientation is probably a fool's errand.

I like the takeaway from those articles. Cause yeah, even if it is a choice, all choices between consenting partners are valid.

Still, you'd have to work very hard to convince me it is a choice for most people. Yes, I could probably choose to perform just about any sex act imaginable (well, tbh, probably about 70%. Feces are right out), but I don't think I could choose to enjoy it, to desire it. I can't even choose to like raw tomatoes or pears. I can eat them if I feel I have to, but I would rather not. Why eat a squishy, watery pear when you can have a juicy, tasty and bity apple instead? And that is only the physical side. Can I conciously choose who I fall in love with? I may say to some extent, for example smokers would be blacklisted, but... experience tells me my control there is very limited.

bert_the_turtle wrote:I like the takeaway from those articles. Cause yeah, even if it is a choice, all choices between consenting partners are valid.

Still, you'd have to work very hard to convince me it is a choice for most people. Yes, I could probably choose to perform just about any sex act imaginable (well, tbh, probably about 70%. Feces are right out), but I don't think I could choose to enjoy it, to desire it. I can't even choose to like raw tomatoes or pears. I can eat them if I feel I have to, but I would rather not. Why eat a squishy, watery pear when you can have a juicy, tasty and bity apple instead? And that is only the physical side. Can I conciously choose who I fall in love with? I may say to some extent, for example smokers would be blacklisted, but... experience tells me my control there is very limited.

You think feces are involved in 30% of the set of all imaginable sex acts?
*checks profile* Oh. You're in Cologne. Fair enough.

kudayta wrote:

Colytic wrote:Regardless of whether people are born so, they don't get the choice once it's set.

Colytic

Well, some people might get that choice. Human sexuality, and sex in general, is a complex topic in biology and not all of it is properly understood (even by experts).

One of the concepts I'd like you to take away from this discussion is that trying to find a simple, single cause to orientation is probably a fool's errand.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I'm not talking about causes but rather control. Straight men can't choose and above all do not want to choose to find themselves attracted to the same sex, and leading that lifestyle will simply lead to unhappiness. The same applies to gay men. We simply need to look at ourselves to observe this.

Colytic

Damn I am at a loss for words ! Just damn .....

You remember the first time you wanked yourselves? You felt that bittersweet flavour and you "learned" that a dick cramp was an orgasm. But it's only a spasm.
We are talking not considering the low power of consciousness but also using terms like "choice". There are different levels of choices and we can say that there are different levels of the subject of choices.
The "choice" of sexual orientation is not like to choose to eat pizza or pasta...it's like the "choose" that a dick cramp is pleasure.
It's a sort of "involuntary choice" or "unclear willingness"...the fact is that the origin of ideas and willing and emotions is the same. The logic itself has an emotional born..and our logic beginnings are not "per se noti", evident "in sè e per sè" but they are historycal. The not contraddiction principle is not made by nature but it's only a way to see the nature. Obviously Aristotle not "choosen" that principle like to choose to drink beer instead of wine, but an entire culture found this mental structure and it used it as fundament of its cultural achitectures and constructions. And a fundament is good until it works. We don't need truth to be happy or to become better.
So, in my immodest opinion, like kudi said, sex is really complex..it's a sort of harmonic box of personality and not only a function..in which infinite elements reverberate. Properly we can't talk about omosexuality or eterosexuality, we would have to talk about 7 bilions of sexualityes right now..and the road to subjectivation is not a unique high road but twinings, climates, terrytoryes, strange lands. Some are similars, some very strange but surely all are differents and noone can follow the other one.

Sex research is a touchy topic. Jesse Bering believes cracking someone’s desires helps understand them fully. He has written a book about human erotic imagination, “objectum sexuals,” and how he views homophobes as types of pervs.

http://www.amazon.com/Perv-The-Sexual-D ... kCode=as2&

How can one possibly cheat and not win 100% of his 1v1s? That's a damn shame.

You know I am just going to put this out there, I know I was gay scene I was in kindergarten, and those are some of my first memory. I didn't know what it was, but I know I liked boys, not girls. When I grew older someone told me what gay was, and it hit me, I was gay. I do not have a choice in this. But I just wanted to put my two cents in cause all this fighting over a subject like this.

PS: Don't drag me into this, I won't reply to anyone comments t words me or about this subject, I just wanted to put my two cents in. Besides this pic should explain most of it: