[TOC] Open Tourney 2013?

General discussion about Defcon

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Would you like to play in a Tourney in the early months of 2013?

Yes
13
59%
No
2
9%
Maybe - if it could be organised fairly
7
32%
 
Total votes: 22
A8U51V3 M0TH
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[TOC] Open Tourney 2013?

Postby A8U51V3 M0TH » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:12 pm

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So its been a long time since we had a tourney - In this thread I am asking players to TRY and put any personal differences aside and come up with idea's which would make it work.

I think the way to do it is to organize the format and rules by "crowd sourcing" being as we all live in the future on the internets.

So post your suggestions here and please vote on whether you would play. ALL SUGGESTIONS considered and then I will put them to a vote. Try not to just use this thread to criticize other suggestions the best ideas will float to the top when we vote so there's no need for "LMFAO that will never work you noob".

Once we as a collective have everything we need in a few weeks we can start playing and finding out who are the "Best DEFCON PLAYERS" going into 2013. Also if you would like to help in any way at all please volunteer your services.

My Suggestions - maybe none of these are good

1. It would be nice to do them as a source of fresh data in a controlled setting for FY's ranking system :lol: I would like to see the results interwoven into that and extended to top 50 players.
2. A group of games would be nice basically a reflection of what games are played the most 1v1, 2v2 (teams) 3v3 (teams) perhaps diplo too but I would not know how to score that.
3. Each player or team has a set amount of games to play over a period of say - 8-10 over 2-3 weeks. This also cuts down on "grinding" to get score up by playing more games than others.
4. I think this should be a OPEN free tourney open to all regardless of skill set. The random draw for games in my next suggestion should average out that most players get to show their skill set and not be based on too much luck.
5. Who plays Who decided by draw of HAT or other randomizing factor. Once Games are drawn there will be a set time to play your games and report the match.
6. Score in tourney decided by simple points system like football - 2 points for a win up to 10 points , 3 points for a win +10-40 points, 5 points for a win over 50 points, a draw scores 1 point and a loss 0 points.
7. Rage quitting means that opponent wins and is awarded 5 points (maximum) regardless of game scores - Players will have 10 minutes to re-connect or be able to prove ISP outage)
8. Players who miss games without a good reason there opponent gets a "bye" and gets 3 points. (say refusal to play, start by playing 2-3 games and go AFK for rest of tourney or not finish all your set games in the time frame while your partners been shown to Games Master to be online and available)
9. The top 10-20 players (depending on total entrants) in the 1v1 tourneys will qualify for a special invitational tournament played elimination style which will decide the New 1v1 KING or QUEEN OF DEFCON which will be the crown they wear till the next tourney.
10. The best 4 Teams will also play a extra final to decide the best teams.
11. Games must be played with 1 key ID and 1 nickname which you registered with.
12. All territories decided by random setting on server


over to you

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Last edited by A8U51V3 M0TH on Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:49 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Postby BMN » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:59 pm

It's bit complicated, but it's a good idea!
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Postby MAXtheMASTER » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:19 am

A great idea. I look forward to surprising/humiliating/shocking quite a few "skilled" players. There are aces up my sleeve you haven't seen yet, there is more to MAX than epic deception and backstabbing skills.
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Postby A8U51V3 M0TH » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:44 am

I re-read and cleaned up my suggestion a little bit hopefully clearer now.

Nice to see that people want this too.
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Postby disappointed pony » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:45 pm

I'm interested, but people's schedules vary a lot - I can't really commit to play at specific times or with specific players. So how about allowing the tourney to run open for, say 3 months. Anyone can enter at any time, but only players completing 10 games within the 3-month window are ranked. Ranking could be on the basis of average score over the best 10 games (or perhaps annul the highest score as an 'outlier').

At the end of the 3 months the top 6 players arrange a shootout, the winner scoring most average points over 3 games.

It could be done on a designated, dedicated server - dedcon could be scripted to automaticallly gather and publish scores, recordings etc. I would be happy to provide server space, but I would need help with the scripting and options.

Make it possible to play with 4-6 players (2v2 or 2v2v2).

Random alliances (only fair).

...
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Postby A8U51V3 M0TH » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:18 pm

yeah nice ideas i was thinking along the same lines but in a shorter time period but maybe 3 months is a good idea.

Also a big thank - you for offer of server space - keep em coming
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Postby Nukraine » Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:32 am

there should totally be an ELO ranking system like there is in chess and pro games like League of Legends :wink:
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Postby A8U51V3 M0TH » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:06 pm

Could you explain how you would think it would work for Defcon tourney please Nukraine?

I looked at it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system and I can see where your coming from on seeding players by skill set? Its a good suggestion just needs more clarity.
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Postby Nukraine » Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:40 pm

Well, the ELO ranking system not only ranks players in terms of each other, as a simple list does, but it also shows exactly how good the players are. For example, if the number 2 player was getting dominated by the number one player, and a simple list showed that number 1 ranked higher, there could only be the assumption that the number one player is at least slightly better. In chess, Magnus Carlsen is 30 full points ahead of his number two competitor, so by comparing the numbers 2848 to 2815, we not only know Carlsen is better, but that he is significantly better.

A number system could better show the gaps in between slots on the leaderboard, better show possible places of error if the number ranks are very similar, and better indicate domination or a possible upset.

Just my thoughts.
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Postby Ace Rimmer » Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:50 pm

All of the Ace tournies used a similar method, inspired heavily by bert_the_turtle and his explanation of ELO+Defcon to me. Everybody started off with 1500 (base rating) and either went up or down each time they played. I thought it worked well.

At one point, I even went back and pulled all the players who ever played in any of my tournies and gave them a global, finished rating. Can't remember where I posted it though.

I'm sure my method was horrible lacking compared to a true ELO, but I liked it.

tl;dr, it's very doable (and kinda fun)

In other news, I like the dedcon/sfcon rankings, but they're too complicated. There's no class or level and no real way to quickly compare two different players
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Postby A8U51V3 M0TH » Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:22 pm

Sounds good Rimmer thanks for help explaining I looked at the ELO wikipedia page and it made my brain hurt.
How did you add and take away points, and how many were added/subtracted in relation to game scores?
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Postby Ace Rimmer » Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:36 pm

I don't have the spreadsheets in front of me, but a quick search provided this:

Ace Rimmer wrote:Everybody starts off at 1500, then each new season you play in you start with your old seasons rating. (1500 if you never played before).

Then, I calculate the chances two players have vs each other, then take the actual outcome and compare it to the expected outcome and adjust each players rating accordingly. It's just as Why? said, if you are expected to win vs your opponent and lose, it hurts you more than if you are expected to lose against him. If you are expected to lose against your opponent (he has a higher rating) and you win, you get a boost. If you lose, it doesn't hurt as bad as losing against a weaker player.

Or,

David vs Goliath = David wins. Huge boost to David, Huge loss to Goliath as Goliath was the favorite.
David vs Goliath = Goliath win. Small boost to Goliath, small loss to David as he never had a chance anyway.
David vs Goliath = Draw. Small boost to David (outperformed, was expected to lose), small loss to Goliath (underperformed, expected to win).

For 2v2, I adjust your rating against each of the other players and then average it (I think, been a while) for a you vs "team" rating.

The Ladder is decide by points, and the rating only comes into play where two players have equal ladder points (tie decider). And, ratings are fun.

Here's the actual formula:

Code: Select all

=IF(AND(A2>0,EXACT(B2,F2)),AVERAGE(IF(G2=1,VLOOKUP(F2,'Raw Data'!AM:AO,3,FALSE),SUMPRODUCT(--($B1:B$2=F2),--($C1:C$2=G2-1),$D1:D$2))+25*(1-(1/(1+10^((IF(O2=1,VLOOKUP(N2,'Raw Data'!AM:AO,3,FALSE),SUMPRODUCT(--($B1:B$2=N2),--($C1:C$2=O2-1),$D1:D$2))-IF(G2=1,VLOOKUP(F2,'Raw Data'!AM:AO,3,FALSE),SUMPRODUCT(--($B1:B$2=F2),--($C1:C$2=G2-1),$D1:D$2)))/400)))),IF(G2=1,VLOOKUP(F2,'Raw Data'!AM:AO,3,FALSE),SUMPRODUCT(--($B1:B$2=F2),--($C1:C$2=G2-1),$D1:D$2))+25*(1-(1/(1+10^((IF(S2=1,VLOOKUP(R2,'Raw Data'!AM:AO,3,FALSE),SUMPRODUCT(--($B1:B$2=R2),--($C1:C$2=S2-1),$D1:D$2))-IF(G2=1,VLOOKUP(F2,'Raw Data'!AM:AO,3,FALSE),SUMPRODUCT(--($B1:B$2=F2),--($C1:C$2=G2-1),$D1:D$2)))/400))))),"")


Or,

PlayerA's Win % vs PlayerB=1/(1+10^((1500B-1500A)/400)) Take that chance of win and compare it to results:
PlayerAOldRating + 25 * (Result [1= win, 0.5= draw, 0= loss] - chance) = PlayerANewRating

This reminds me. I need to correct that 25 back to 10 for a slower rating system.

Edit: This also reminds me that I need to look into doing a team vs team rating and then adjusting individuals rating using that. :roll:


Note: That was not the most recent or current version, but hopefully it helps. I think that particular thread does contain stats which used the last version of my rating system.

The ultimate point is to compare players properly to each other as time passes. That is, you're only as good as your last game + if you played a noob and did poorly, your ranking should suffer more than if you played a true powerhouse and did poorly. Conversely, if you crushed a noob, you don't get as much of a bump as you would had you crused a pro. (see David vs Goliath above)
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Postby A8U51V3 M0TH » Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:32 pm

Ok so we have a offer of a server from Disapointed Pony - We have a elaborate scoring system from ACE - all we need is help with code so stats can be automatic.

I roped in Arnie!

We could make this be a reality:

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Postby jon » Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:04 am

In, bitches. It's 2013
http://15percentfaster.com is my new website.

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