Admiral Yoshi's Guide on Naval Warfare

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Admiral Yoshi's Guide on Naval Warfare

Postby Admiral Yoshi » Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:08 am

Welcome to Admiral Yoshi's Guide on Naval Warfare!!! In DEFCON, naval warfare isn't just going willy nilly. Sometimes it takes more strategy including naval nuking. I'm going to give you tactics in how to gain the seas with at the least minimum casualties. Althought they work...(I haven't tested it yet but actually I've seen players do that)...if a commander is smart, your plans won't work if it's exploited.

UNITS:

Battleship - They will be the phalanxes of the seas. Battleships will be the main frontal assault of the fleet and often they're the ones who get killed by bombers. They must protect the Carriers from range of fire otherwise aerial support is lost and you lose the game. They are vunerable to Submarines.

Carriers - They're the capital ships of today's world and in the game of DEFCON. The Aircraft Carriers are tough to destroy and can deploy aerial units and immediately kill submarines. They don't attack directly but can deploy powerful unites like Fighters and Bombers. They must be protected since it can carry aerial units and make bombing runs against the enemy. The Aircraft Carriers are vunerable to Battleships.

Submarines - They'll be your covert operations and is also the most feared unit in the game. Submarines must be protected and at the same time undetected by the enemy. Each carry 5 MRBM's (Medium-range Balistic Missile) that can nuke civilian and military targets at a distance. In Active Mode, a group of Submarines can take down ships easily. They are vunerable to Aircraft Carriers if the Carriers are in Anti-Submarine Mode.


TACTICS:

DEFCON 5: When you're playing as a selected superpower, you place in your silos, airbases, and radars in your map. DO NOT DEPLOY YOUR ENTIRE FLEET! Only 1-3 Battleships are deployed at the furthest of any sea territory because they'll be serving as scout units. Plan where your opponent will place in their fleet. If a battleship finds a fleet deployed, then you know the incoming threat and can be prepared for it.

DEFCON 4: At this time, you should know the enemy threat and deploy your entire fleet. Make sure it's realtime speed, otherwise you won't be able to deploy your fleet in time. Question yourself this:

1) What if the fleet attacks me from the north?
2) What if the fleet attacks me from the south?
3) What if the fleet attacks me from the east?
4) What if the fleet attacks me from the west?
5) What if a /fighter/bomber/group of bombers/group of fighters attack me?
6) What if a sub/group of subs attack me?
7) What to do if your fleet is being outnumbered?
8) What to do if your fleet outnumbers your enemy?

If you're able to answer ALL OF THEM, then your position is good. If even one of the questions is not answered, then your position is bad. If you're position is bad, then rearrage it to better yourself the position.

For Submaines, they should remain on the coast and must be well protected and put it in Active Mode (I got this tactic from Schubduse). Submarines carry important warheads that can detonate coasts and at the same time, when conventional warfare erupts at DEFCON 3, they can patrol the coast for enemy ships and subs.

DEFCON 3 and DEFCON 2: There are two scenarios that will happen:

1) If you're being attacked/or doing the attacking, immediately switch the Aircraft Carriers to bombers. If the opponent sends waves of fighters, have the battleships attack the fighters. If the opponent sends bombers, retreat. But if your opponent is still attacking with no bombers in sight, hold out for 120 seconds. After that deploy your bombers but make sure it's behind the Battleships for protection and is away from the line of fire. The Carriers should move out of the line of fire to avoid casualties. When all the bombers are deployed, send in waves of fighters, but make sure the Carriers stay away from the line of fire.

2) If you're not engaging an enemy fleet AND you're in your sovereign sea, all Carriers should be in Anti-Submarine Mode. This should prevent any Submarines from sneaking into your coasts.

DEFCON 1: At this stage, either you have annihilated the enemy fleet and/or you have entered into a nuclear naval warfare (naval nuking).

1) If you have defeated the enemy fleet, you are free to nuke, nuke, NUKE! Make sure when the Submarines are in their Launch Mode, they're protected by ships.

2) If you are entering a stage of a nuclear naval warfare (naval nuking), the most important thing to do is to destroy the bomber that carries the warhead while at the same time you dodge the incoming SRBM' (Short-range Balistic Missile). At this stage, you MUST NOT RESPOND TO NAVAL NUKING AS WELL! Continue on with the conventional warfare. At this stage, you should destroy incoming bombers that carry or let go of their SMBM's. Destroy the bombers and you can win. Careful, if you're in a tight space, don't bother going to any tight space because your fleet will be nuked or your fleet will be surrounded.



OTHER STUFF:

1) Naval nuking...yea I hated that. Usually I condemn naval nuking but only use it in these conditions:

- If you're outnumbered.
- If you have bombers from the Airfield reenforcing you.
- If you can distract the opponent for 240 seconds.

In naval nuking, it's risky because you have 240 seconds to deploy the warheads and often times it misses. But it's pure fun to do it! Anyways, naval nuking only works well if you're doing covert operations or you can en masse bombers. The hit-and-run tactic should work when deploying warheads because your bomber can nuke opponents from afar. But for any DEFCON player who hates nuclear naval warfare (naval nuking) and wants to avoid it at all costs, here is what YOU SHOULD do:

- Engage the enemy fleet the moment DEFCON 3 commences.
- Destroy your own fleet (Just kidding...)

That way, you can have a chance to kill the Carriers and avoid a nuclear warfare on the seas.


2) If you're outnumbered, then use nuclear warfare to nuke enemy fleets while also carrying out the covert operations.

3) If you outnumbered the enemy, then ATTACK! Conventional warfare is a must.


These are the tactics I use. My guide will not work sometimes, but it should ensure victory in the seas, because always in DEFCON, your biggest victories comes from the seas. But remember, different tactics are used in different ways so that means that there are more "crazy and complex" tactics to use.

If you have more for me or want to comment or correct my tactics, please comment!
Last edited by Admiral Yoshi on Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby 47 » Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:29 pm

my friend i will disagree with you on a lot of stuff.. i have no idea how long you been playing defcon or what.. but let me tell you one thing.. no naval tactic is perfect and all naval tactic is perfect.. every player has there way of playing defcon.. you got yours that you think is good.. different players have mastered different naval formations and are real good at them.. blackbeard 6 fleet formation.. mogwai lines of death.. nigthwatch flexible and unpredictable..MOR patience... senator agreesing is my middle name.. a lot of players play differently.. naval tactics, strategy, formation all depend on the type of territory you get.. you get close quater battle they will play differently.. long range they will play differently.. as for the subs part..again depends on the player.. some like to keep them near the coast to hold timer.. some keep them with fleet to counter enemy subs and some use them as an offensive weapon...

In DEFCON, naval warfare isn't just going "THIS IS SPARTA" and then charging down like 300 Spartans fighting


well disagree again on that.. EU vs NA.. SA vs EU.. EU vs Russia.. you can do classic panzers at the enemy.. overwhelm them and kill them before they do any damage.. some may say that EV vs NA leaves you expose from south.. agree on that but what if you are able to scout before def 1?? kill most of the enemy fleet.. then you got the upper hand...

anyway i would like to see what ace, nigth, mvpe or senator has to say...
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Postby Schubdüse » Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:33 pm

Damnit, I have just relocated my post.

Edit: Cause "Natural Selection" favoured this thread, I'm relocating my post again. :roll:

Dear Yoshi,
we have played 2 matches so far. I have to admit, that your style worked really nice vs Bastek (2vs2). And you have nearly beaten me (1vs1). But just nearly...
Your style might be too risky and every player of the famous "Old Guard" (Wink) will probably beat you. Nevertheless, out of all the Demos out there, you are one of the best.

Admiral Yoshi wrote:
For Submaines, they should remain on the coast and must be well protected and put it in Active Mode (I got this tactic from Schubduse).


Wait, wait, wait! That's not true for all cases. For example sub-pushes "can" work really fine. But Ace Rimmer wouldn't agree about it. It really depends on the battle situation and players.
But to keep subs safe is in overall and most of the time a very good option.


Please delete the other threads in "General" or xander will stab you...
Last edited by Schubdüse on Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Admiral Yoshi » Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:05 pm

47 wrote:my friend i will disagree with you on a lot of stuff.. i have no idea how long you been playing defcon or what.. but let me tell you one thing.. no naval tactic is perfect and all naval tactic is perfect.. every player has there way of playing defcon.. you got yours that you think is good.. different players have mastered different naval formations and are real good at them.. blackbeard 6 fleet formation.. mogwai lines of death.. nigthwatch flexible and unpredictable..MOR patience... senator agreesing is my middle name.. a lot of players play differently.. naval tactics, strategy, formation all depend on the type of territory you get.. you get close quater battle they will play differently.. long range they will play differently.. as for the subs part..again depends on the player.. some like to keep them near the coast to hold timer.. some keep them with fleet to counter enemy subs and some use them as an offensive weapon...

In DEFCON, naval warfare isn't just going "THIS IS SPARTA" and then charging down like 300 Spartans fighting


well disagree again on that.. EU vs NA.. SA vs EU.. EU vs Russia.. you can do classic panzers at the enemy.. overwhelm them and kill them before they do any damage.. some may say that EV vs NA leaves you expose from south.. agree on that but what if you are able to scout before def 1?? kill most of the enemy fleet.. then you got the upper hand...

anyway i would like to see what ace, nigth, mvpe or senator has to say...


Cool! This means that I can edit and learn from great players from you.
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Postby Admiral Yoshi » Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:13 pm

I don't know how to delete it... :(
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Postby 47 » Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:14 pm

ahahaah..yes you can.. but not from reading but playing against real good player like ace, senator, nightwatch, battletron, mvpe.. that is how you will learn.. these are the real old guard of defcon..everyone else is semi old guard....
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Postby tllotpfkamvpe » Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:28 am

The guide is from a very defensive players view. Placement is based on enemy attacking you from NWSE, carriers kept on antisub mode etc. Admiral Yoshi you should try to write another guide but make it with more attacking tactics next time.

Also I saw your navy in action for a few minuted last night and you looked like an excellent player. Welcome to the forum.
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Re: Admiral Yoshi's Guide on Naval Warfare

Postby Nightwatch » Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:41 am

Guides of players who havent played even one tourney really have something.

Ghost said it already. There is no The best Strategy vs Everything and Everyone.
Create your style and proof that it works against the veterans in tourney games, then it is worth something.
Nothing personal, but your post about the topic is nothing more than attempt to come up with some basics for a style of your own, but not much more than that.
A first sept maybe, enough to go down with honor in the tourneys ;-)

Anyway, actually writing a real Defcon Naval Guide would result in pages and pages of in depth of strategy and game theory.
For example, i only scratched the surface with a post on naval nuking:
http://forums.introversion.co.uk/defcon ... php?t=7173
YOu can easily write three or four times that much about that topic alone.
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Re: Admiral Yoshi's Guide on Naval Warfare

Postby Schubdüse » Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:20 pm

Nightwatch wrote:Guides of players who havent played even one tourney really have something.

Yeah, I had to smile too. :wink:

Nightwatch wrote:A first sept maybe, enough to go down with honor in the tourneys ;-)

Nighty, if you have time, then please watch this. http://demoszenen.de/defcon/dcrec/2010-08/2v2Random-2010-08-07_20.17.zip
I think his style is very advanced considering his "Demo status". But the chances are high that he would have some problems in 2vs2, cause he can't listen.
His silo placement was really risky and I told him to defend his silos with navy. He refused, but was lucky, because Bastek + partner nuked his silos far too late.

Nightwatch wrote:Anyway, actually writing a real Defcon Naval Guide would result in pages and pages of in depth of strategy and game theory.
For example, i only scratched the surface with a post on naval nuking:
http://forums.introversion.co.uk/defcon ... php?t=7173
YOu can easily write three or four times that much about that topic alone.

Will you write such a guide one day?
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Postby Nightwatch » Mon Aug 09, 2010 1:24 pm

No i wont.
Mainly becauce my English isnt good enough to explain the underlining theory in a way i would find acceptable.
I also dont think i know enough about the game and strategy to do it right anyway. To be precise, i dont think anyone here has sufficent knowledge to cover all the angles of Defcon Naval Fighting.

And of course, no time.
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Postby Nightwatch » Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:11 pm

Anyway, i watched the recording...

Couple of general points, nothing in depth

1) Place your BBs like that and you ll lose them against anyone who deploys in pac.
Dont seperate BBs from air cover. Your forces have to work together.

2) This little subenterprise in atl is just stupid. Sure, it might work once upon a time, but generally speaking you ll lose them.

3) As schubi said, your silo placement means certain death in a tourney. You ll be scouted and lose your silos before you can launch.
You can do that if you have your navy in support of silos on that coast.

4) Why are your BBs sitting there on their asses when attacked by bombers? Move, move them to safety. Space means life.

5) Your assets need to interact with each other. Why do you seperate BBs from CVNs from SSNs? It means certains death!

Not much more to say, since you only nuked the US.


And again nothing personal, but i think jugding from that recording, you ll need to gain much more skill to survive battle against veterans.
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Postby Admiral Yoshi » Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:30 pm

Nightwatch wrote:Anyway, i watched the recording...

Couple of general points, nothing in depth

1) Place your BBs like that and you ll lose them against anyone who deploys in pac.
Dont seperate BBs from air cover. Your forces have to work together.

2) This little subenterprise in atl is just stupid. Sure, it might work once upon a time, but generally speaking you ll lose them.

3) As schubi said, your silo placement means certain death in a tourney. You ll be scouted and lose your silos before you can launch.
You can do that if you have your navy in support of silos on that coast.

4) Why are your BBs sitting there on their asses when attacked by bombers? Move, move them to safety. Space means life.

5) Your assets need to interact with each other. Why do you seperate BBs from CVNs from SSNs? It means certains death!

Not much more to say, since you only nuked the US.


And again nothing personal, but i think jugding from that recording, you ll need to gain much more skill to survive battle against veterans.


You did? Which one? Is it the one where I'm South America and Bastek is North America?


AND THANKS FOR THE TIP!!! It'll help A LOT!
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Postby Nightwatch » Mon Aug 09, 2010 8:04 pm

Yes, the one that schubi posted.
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Postby Admiral Yoshi » Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:44 am

1) OK

2) Can you give me the URL? I want to see my fight against Bastek!
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Re: Admiral Yoshi's Guide on Naval Warfare

Postby ChemicalRascal » Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:40 am

It's up a few posts.

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