Cheater? You be the judge.

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Why?
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Cheater? You be the judge.

Postby Why? » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:18 am

I played TOM-BUSCH -US in a 1v1 and noticed some unusual behavior... I felt like he was watching me play... and it wouldn't be the first time I felt like this, while I was playing him. Everyone knows that I love the drama. However, in the hundreds of matches I've played I've never thought, or accused, someone else of 'ghosting' me. Never, ever have I accused someone of cheating in this way.

So, in this game there were two spectator aliases that either, A) never spoke, or B) never revealed themselves. They were PRINCE and Midazolam.

Screenshot 1: The Set-Up... Given the circumstances in this picture, what are the chances of you guessing where my subs would be?

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Screenshot 2: 10 game minutes later, and TOM has sea targets chosen for his bombers... one in front of my subs, and one behind my subs... It was as if he knew that I wouldn't see the nukes coming, until it was too late... and then I'd only have time to move my subs one way or the other...

If it was one random spot, I could understand, but look at the targeting... and from so far away. It indicates that he knows where a group of units are, AND he's judged where they'll run to!

If you can come up for another plausible explanation for those orders, please explain... because I've never seen such a thing, in thousands of matches against top-rated players.

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Screenshot 3: No activity from the region, but same targets from his bombers...

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Scrteenshots 4-7: He saw a carrier and fighters coming for his bombers, but his bombers kept the same targets... Even after one bomber got taken... WOW! He's a fucking psychic!

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Screenshot 8: Zoro asks Midozolam to identify himself, and he remains quiet for 30 minutes... only to say something like, "I only joined to see the mayhem unfold." A total TOM thing to say....

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Screenshots 9-10: After cheating has been accused, and certain spectators are suspected, TOM still thinks about taking more of my subs... His subs were sitting off of Iceland for ages, but he suddenly decided to move them into the gap, while my subs were passing through. He sat them there for a moment, pondering whether or not it would be too obvious if he put his subs on active. 47 spotted the suspicious movement and then TOM, decided against going active, and moved the subs through the gap.

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If you still have doubts, please watch the recording. If you have doubts about the possibility of cheating this way, contact me and I will demonstrate. I will bring my notebook PC into the room, and tell you exactly where you placed every unit. It's really that simple. As simple as TOM's simple ass. I've never cheated in this way, but I know it's possible.



I think TOM, and all of his STEAM keys, should be banned form the tourney servers. I also think all of his games should be wiped as VOIDED DUE TO CHEATING.
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Postby Why? » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:30 am

You'll also notice, in the first 2 screens, that I'm having connect problems, but TOM was quick to comfort me. He didn't say he had a connect problem, but he said it would be brief and then he knew when it stopped.

I'm not sure how cheating works with Defcon. However, I know that in other online multiplayer games, that unexplainable lag is a symptom of a cheating. It happens when two ports are assigned to the same IP Address...
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you crack me up

Postby TOM BUSCH-US » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:44 am

I sent those bombers on a general course to find your carrier, I had actually momentarily forgot about the 2 bombers they apparently ran there course while i wasn't looking. these things happen. had i known there were subs there and the carriers, i would have sent more bombers. it was a fluke. my subs were trying to sneak past the gap to hit new york, nothing else, otherwise they would have gone active. you engage in a lot of hypothetical, those of us who are realists do not have that luxury. also I do not have another PC, just my desk top. (apparently you have both) I also have never ever heard about much less tried to cheat in the way you described or anyway for that matter. You apparently know so much about this form of cheating you offered to demonstrate it to other interested parties. And the most important of facts is again had i gone through all that trouble to cheat I would have made sure to win the game. there is no way you can get around the last part! You are a joke and i am not the only one who thinks so believe me!
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Postby Why? » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:51 am

Tom, you can't just click the ocean, and have it nuke there. You put the bombers into sbm mode and THEN set those targets. They weren't just random targets either... They were too precise. You only saw one fighter, coming from that area, prior to that... Yet, you just happened to target directly in front of my subs, and behind my subs. Even the most skilled Defcon players would not guess and target that well...


Not only that, you did it RIGHT AWAY... right at Defcon 1...


If this isn't enough proof; I'll do the same thing in every match, and win every tourney. I have a laptop and a notebook PC... I'll keep an eye on both oceans.
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Postby roflamingo » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:26 am

Just played through the first 1:04 of the match.

This is the chronology as I saw it. (I reserve the right to be wrong).
Best way to see what happens is to have Orders-visible enabled.

-- Those 2 bombers had New York targeted for nuke-mode.
-- Red fighters enter orange radar range (southwest Russia)
-- Those 2 bombers change course and set nuke target right on the subs
-- Only specs in at that point were 'Dee Dee' and 'Prince'
-- Soon Midzolam joins as spec
-- Single fighter intercepts both bombers, but bombers launched. First nuke misses, second nuke hits 3 subs

While indeed it looks suspicious from the red perspective, it also seems rational from the orange perspective. It's not a 1 in a million chance. There was at least a carrier in that area, guaranteed.
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Postby Why? » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:31 am

Explain the targeting choices, roflamingo. Have you ever seen such a precise blind-target, from so far away? Please, just hint at some examples, and I'll go find the recording.


I've seen your spec chats... you don't like my attitude. You're also a noob; so your opinions are biased and irrelevant, respectfully.
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Postby roflamingo » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:48 am

Why? wrote:Explain the targeting choices, roflamingo. Have you ever seen such a precise blind-target, from so far away? Please, just hint at some examples, and I'll go find the recording.


I've seen your spec chats... you don't like my attitude. You're also a noob; so your opinions are biased and irrelevant, respectfully.


Slow down there buddy.

I have played ...maybe... 3 or 4 games in the last month. You have zero basis to call me a noob or anything else.

You and I have never played each other. One of the reasons I stopped playing this game was because there is too much EGO involved in winning or losing.

Sadly most of the people I used to play with seem to have left. I used to play A LOT. Through a small effort you would see how far back I go.

I will indulge you by saying this...the 2 targets were pretty uncanny. I think what bugs me is that your carrier was visible but he did not nuke it, and instead flung nukes into the ocean.

The chronology speaks for itself. You see something in the data. That's fine and maybe you are right. But maybe you should consider other possibilities. Watch it again, paying specific attention to those 2 bombers, where they originally target, what data orange collects that influences them to change course.
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Postby tllotpfkamvpe » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:50 am

Looks like lucky nuking. Here is my reasoning

1) Tom is (no offence) newish player. Its the sort of unusual thing only a new player would do.
2) When I send a bunch of bombers, I tend to send them close to each other, hence the two orders right next to your subs. Nothing suspicious there, its normal play behaviour.
3) No evasive action was taken when fighter is launched at the bombers. Suggests Tom forgot about his bombers.
4) Most of the unknown spectators are actually forum members using strange names. So who is to say the other specs are not also other real players.
5) Tom didn't try to win the match. A cheater would.
6) Tom is a forum player, I've never seen a forum player cheat.
7) Why? is a fucktarded little bitch.
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Postby Nightwatch » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:12 am

Could someone post the recording please?
Edit nvm
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Postby Why? » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:27 am

I, and others (47), have witnessed mvpe claiming to play as TOM BUSCH-US. So, it's no surprise that this tosser comes to TOM's defense, in such a timely manner. 8am in the UK? mvpe wakes up and posts on Defcon, first thing?

I've always suspected that TOM is this lazy ass, sometimes known as mvpe. He just pretends to play stupid, under various names. He uses big fleets, and little micromanagement, yet he uses high-concept strategy. This kind of strategy only comes through experience, yet he expects us to believe that these 'new' players just appear, with this knowledge, without climbing the ranks.


In this way, he can shape tourneys however he feels. I think he's done the same thing with other tourneys, under other names. A Steam key only costs $10... which is only about 5 pounds, to the English... I'm sure he has several...

Obviously, mvpe doesn't join tourneys under his own name, yet he always has such a big stake in it. He's always arguing rules, as mvpe, when he doesn't 'officially' play. So, why would he even care, if he wasn't signed up under another name? Because, he IS signed up, under various names... and he's playing A LOT!

Yes, he's THAT sad.



If you don't think that ghosting is possible, watch this game. I played myself, on the tourney server, using different keys, but the same computer... Yes, very sad, but an example none-the-less. This is mvpe, 7 days a week.

http://www.demoszenen.de/defcon/latest/ ... _07.39.zip
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Postby Why? » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:40 am

Ever seen a 'NO CLEAR VICTOR' screen? Me neither, but I bet mvpe has!


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I am in absolute agreement with llotpfkamvpe & roflaming

Postby TOM BUSCH-US » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:58 am

Finally some intelligent people that think and reason before they talk. And actually they were both right on the money by that I mean on par with reality and not WHYS? fantasy land. I think if Why? one day drops his fake front he puts on along with his insecurity and anger issues he could be more liked. Lashing out at roflamingo for making an intelligent observation was like most of Why's statements and reactions. Uncalled for unnecessary & unexceptable abuse of others. So thank you guys for pointing out facts and Why/ have you ever considered therapy?
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Postby Why? » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:08 am

You'll notice that all of the 'explanations' are far fetched. They're also coming from persons(?) that are either new to the forum, or have demonstrated a dislike for my personality, in the past.

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that all of these 'new' forum members have come out of the woodwork to defend TOM... All within a few short hours... All after 3am EST and 8am GMT.... There are just soooo many Defcon forum players up at that time of the morning, and they ALL just happened to be these sorts of players.
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Postby Nightwatch » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:11 am

Well, watched the recording.

I cant see cheating.
He nuked your subs Why, but his reason is valid.
He spotted your fighters scouting southern russia and redirected two bombers from New York to nuke your carrier near spain.
The target area is totally logical if you aim to nuke something there.
I mean, come on, this guy did a bomer run all across the pacific. Dont you think he wouldnt jump at the chance to nuke a carrier somewhere in nowhere and then forget about the bombers? I buy this shit any day.

Anyway, there were so many other opportunities in the game to screw you over, i cant see why someone would cheat to get some three subs and then nothing.
Get over it, you cant prove it anyway. And believe me, i know how it feels.
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Thank you Nightwatch

Postby TOM BUSCH-US » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:20 am

You were absolutely right :)

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