The downside of 2v2 or 3v3 matches

General discussion about Defcon

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trekdude31415
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Re: WoW there apears to be some negativity afloat

Postby trekdude31415 » Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:51 pm

TOM BUSCH-US wrote:. Others like WHY? are well Irrelevant, insecure, defiant,trailer trash, arrogant, ignorant, hateful,spiteful, poor loser, and countless other more colorful descriptive words that I am at liberty to mention but won't in the interest of getting back to the point. Let let me conclude with a Biblical reference.
l

i did read your post
i think you have insuficcent evidence for this bit
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Postby Eral » Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:18 pm

47 wrote:Tom one thing that i learned in a 2 vs 2 is that communication is necessary...if you are refering to the game with eral last night then imo you did made few mistakes...

1. you never looked at WB
2. He asked you to stoped nuking japan but you still kept on doing it

so in one way he had a valid reason to bully you but on the other hand he was wrong cause he was being very rude...

Playing as a team means that if you know other player is better then you then listen....and let them know what you think and why..this can help you to avoid a lot of prob...


@TOM,
I would like to beg your pardon mister, it is a fact that i talked to you very rudely. Too much. For the time i speak about player's behaviour...

But, if you permit a little explanation wich has not value of criticism, i would like to try to tell you my point of view. 1v1 or 2v2 are very similar. Tactic and strategy are the heart if the gameplay, because everything on the map is known or could be (no hazard, no chance, no psychology/policy,"opportunities" to take or almost). And against great players - i mean players at least at your own level- there are not so many" faults" (term wich deserves more explanation but not here) that you can do. And, i think the pleasure of a game in such circumstances is the application and the focusing you do by playing, taking the facts of the game, finding a good plan and finally execute it to the victory... if possible. In 1v1 you have alone the responsability of success or lose. In 2v2 of course you have to take as a part of the victory, the skills and mental of you partner. In any victory (or almost) in 2v2. Communication is of course the first way to success. But it's not enough. In 2v2 i couldn't manage your own fleet. And from it, I have to consider my partner skills. Lacks and forces. To define a strategy.

The point was that i accepted to play this friendly game with you, because i hoped to play with you -i watched a few of your games and played with/against you-. , because i though of course you can play as a good partner. I wasn't forced. Ok i could have speak more with you explaning all from the beggining (hard with no pause). Or try to suggest you in my fucking bad and short frenglish what i could have done -with you- if you had let me the time.

That you don't look at whiteboard focusing on placing and fighting is a thing. That you ignore my comments rushing for points, another thing. But, as i told, there is in 2v2 no lonely victory. And it really doesn't matter that A or B have the more quantity of points at the beggining (or even at the end). Just because we share the points, the victory is a TEAM victory. And if i do with you, you have to do with me. (I dont' want to enter into the details of that game- i could if you want). What, nerved me really at this game was your "will" to work alone in a part of the map. One time, two times, three times... and then for me it was really enough. How could i let you hear me without to begin to be so provocating, rude and insulting? You never heard me.

I'm not saying that your a shitty player. Neither that we lose or win because of you or that it is the most important thing of a game. For everyone here, a 2v2 game is won by the better sharing of the tasks. Who eliminate who, what and where. We never played as a working combination. Of course you can ignore me. So why to play with me. Ok, you can be lazzy in micromanaging, so why to play? Since i feel pleasure for playing a 2v2 game, i ever tried to aply with and for my partner. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY in that variation of this game to win.

I mean, a game is a game. Nothing more. But playing a game, ignoring your teammate, as much as you could ignore what does your opponents is not to play, it is simply a waste of time. Where is the fun, especially in defcon? I ask you really. I was totally frustrated that you acted with so much carelessness -kill all hippies-. Maybe i was with you too demanding. I was certainly too insulting and i'm sorry for that. You deserved better as form of expression. I can't be sorry to tell you frankly what i mean on the moment, when i mean it.

There are of course no God of defcon. -kill all gods-. But there are better or at least, more experimented players. You can't imagine the number of time that i was spanked at this game. Doesn't matter. Errors could teach you something. If you copy. If you want to win. Not if you win always! Little shade very important that i would have liked you hear.

P.S.: Of course we know you have a serious life keeping you busy. We all have. (right?) :D Dont' forget we are here to fight and to unwind. Not much, it is enough.

P.P.S: misanderstood, it is not:
"let he who is free of sin cast the first stone"
but
"let he who has fired first with his silos cast the last stone"
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ERAL

Postby TOM BUSCH-US » Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:53 pm

I accept your apology with all the humility and thoughtfulness it was offered!And respect you as a player and person. I think the reason I on occasion take issue with certain team games is I have difficulty concentrating when someone with a certain superiority complex is barking in my ear! team players are on equal terms mutual respect is key. I take thought and consideration when someone politely requests something of me, I do not respond well to demands, insults etc... And you know something? no one with any self respect including YOU would. I am far from perfect, I have lots to learn, but I have on occasion beat some pretty damn good players, and it wasn't luck! Respect goes both ways, I will give mine if I see it in return. I will however defend myself any and all times I feel I am attacked unjustly. I have also been told by Edward, Warclown and other extremly talanted and gifted players that I have improved substantially in the last year! i believe they are credible when saying this and they do not hand out undeserved compliments. Perhaps my improving to the point where I win the majority of games I play is the very reason I have been under attack by why? (Who I have beaten) and others. Like I said though I have alot to learn and will always welcome constructive (well meaning) criticism. I also believe i am intelligent enough to know the difference!
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Re: ERAL

Postby Nightwatch » Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:12 pm

Who says partners have to be on equal teams?
This is not your fantasy of a happy marriage. This is a somewhat complex strategy game where you have to employ the best strategy to win. If that means that one player has to be the whipping boy and be told what to do, so be it. If you cant obey orders from a superior player you shouldnt play tourneys. If you thinke the order suck, argue. Dont just do what you want. Noone always sees it all. And nobody gives good orders all the time. But usually those who do have a very good reason for their commands.
You dont like to be commaned? Well, thats your problem. Deal with it and dont let your team down because of it. Be a man and accept the fact that someone has a better insight than you. And be glad that you recieve orders from a good player, usually you can learn much from it.
This is not about you, your ego or you honor. 2v2 is about winning as a team. Its about taking a hit for the other player. Its about sacrificing your assets and your points in order to win as a team. You dont get the big cities? Why the fuck do you care? You have to do the dirty work? So what? All that matters ist the score in the end.
You think you are good enough not to be commaned? Well, talk and argue. And follow orders. It doesnt matter if you win the majority of your games. Many players do. But there are still those of us who have much more experience and skill than you. Those of us who are better on the strategic level.
Being a good players doesnt mean you have the right to do what you want. 2v2 has to be coordinated teamplay.
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Your right

Postby TOM BUSCH-US » Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:18 pm

I had absolutely zero valid points. Iam really not interested in going in circles here, i made my point, said my piece from my own point of view which I am entitled too. it would be a waste of precious time to continue being tag teamed on this forum and listening to the countless continuous justification attempts for inappropriate behaviour. there are over hundred players on this game with a hundred different playing styles and talent levels in certain areas. saying who should be the boss all the time and who is better is loosely defined depending on a whole series of areas and factors broad generalizations help nobody.
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Postby 47 » Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:33 pm

@TOM

mate one thing that i have noticed in ur 2 vs 2 style is that you want to / tend to play it as a 1 vs 1... this is where i think your weakness lies... the moment you will overcome this you can be a really good player in 2 vs 2...

if i remember properly there was a thing called in Defcon.. Shield and sword... one player take the bulk of enemy force.. dies...kills and takes less points./.. while the other one takes most points and brings the game back home...this is what 2 vs 2 is all about.. coordinate.. issue orders/ follow them where necessary.. as night already said if you dont like an order argue with it.. ask Why do you want me to do this and not that....

anyways.. if you dont feel like taking orders then i cannot say anything other than suggest 2 things...

1. dont play 2 vs 2 with known players (tourney member)
2. dont play 2 vs 2 at all...unless you find a single suitable player for yourself.
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Postby Why? » Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:33 am

TAMPAX-US
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Postby TOM BUSCH-US » Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:58 am

Why? wrote:TAMPAX-US


And once again like clockwork without fail the genius confirms my point.
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story of a weird wanker: tom

Postby Eral » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:13 am

@TOM

Well, ok i understand your point of view. I just read a few lines of what you wrote and it's enough to understand - that i shocked you totally-. I have a total superiority complex (megalomaniac, paranoïac, violent, etc...) and you are always right... For now, i will assume it. By beating you each time (with finger in the noze of course) you'll be in my near. I will decompensate my psychological disorder in tragical distortions of your ego. Until you sneak in blood at my foot, painfully.

This humility will be an example for me for the rest of my life - how to avoid it?. And i will remember you as the guy who teached me what a team is, how to speak to the neighbour, and that it is sometimes totally heroïc to speak to any donkey-fish like you.

:P


P.S.: As i'm a little old now, i can't remember when i ordered you during this game. Maybe you could took some quality screenies of it? Long time we did not have a little soap here.





& With all my respect. FUCK YOU.
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Postby cza » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:19 am

If any good has come out of this, it is definitive proof that Nightwatch is a top.
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Re: story of a weird wanker: tom

Postby Why? » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:27 am

Eral wrote:@TOM

Well, ok i understand your point of view. I just read a few lines of what you wrote and it's enough to understand - that i shocked you totally-. I have a total superiority complex (megalomaniac, paranoïac, violent, etc...) and you are always right... For now, i will assume it. By beating you each time (with finger in the noze of course) you'll be in my near. I will decompensate my psychological disorder in tragical distortions of your ego. Until you sneak in blood at my foot, painfully.

This humility will be an example for me for the rest of my life - how to avoid it?. And i will remember you as the guy who teached me what a team is, how to speak to the neighbour, and that it is sometimes totally heroïc to speak to any donkey-fish like you.

:P


P.S.: As i'm a little old now, i can't remember when i ordered you during this game. Maybe you could took some quality screenies of it? Long time we did not have a little soap here.





& With all my respect. FUCK YOU.


HAHA, yes, the problem is with all of us, and not with TOM. His ego can't handle someone suggesting a plan, so he needs you to sit back and watch the 'stupid genius' at work. Once he's had his run on the board, without a coherent plan, you must clean up 50 cities that he left for you... the 50 cities that each have 1m population. For someone with your skill, it should be a piece of cake!
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Re: story of a weird wanker: tom

Postby trickser » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:29 am

Eral wrote:Long time we did not have a little soap here.

Well, I am still surprised we had no flamewar with MOR about his quit.
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Re: story of a weird wanker: tom

Postby Zorotama » Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:25 am

trickser wrote:
Eral wrote:Long time we did not have a little soap here.

Well, I am still surprised we had no flamewar with MOR about his quit.


That's because it seems obviously for a "real" reason. Defcon players use flames just for the stupid things. :wink:
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Postby Eral » Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:48 pm

Anyway what i can read about TOM's perspective is that intelligent and reasonable peoples are always on his side, agreeing with him. Another proof of his talent. His legendary humility should be very affected, but the truth auto revelead wich speaks for him and for us (the heretics) of course.

I suspect noobs/unknown/unsignificant/non-human-being/untermensch players to accept traveller cheques from TOM to be admiring of him in public. No need of prooves. I know it. My natural intellectual superiority and my superior integrity commands to me to reveal that superchery. Even if my personal credibility is in game...

What Why? doesn't want to understand is that TOM is not enough able to cheat like it. His better strokes are due to the luck and nothing else (or lack of attention of his opponent, or agaisnt newplayers wich have played a few game against CPU). And now he lost on the tourney, he flames us because it is his only method to go out fittingly. Protecting his long and established reputation with his fans -wich are legions-, conquered after a long series of splendid and styled victories. No doubt, you are a Prince, TOM. The top of the pop. No need to hear anyone. No need to focuse on concrete things, let you invade by your magical intuition, truth will be auto revealed.

Better, you are a samouraï trained in Westpoint. Form is the background and background is the form. You play bad with awfull poeples (poeples they speak you rudely). You win with good peoples (poeples wich have pity or admiration for you - anyway you don't see the difference, but you feel empathy).

I could post some rec and screenies about you wich could inspire the future generations, TOM. Really. Time of Gurus has collapsed. "Spies" are watching you for now. And i'm waiting for you on the battlefield, sure that you'll win with your prescience powers. I will not be drunk. Be sure of it.

To finish, let me now quote another variation of my own bible:

"he was crucified on public place and it was painfull for him"
.
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NOT COOL

Postby TOM BUSCH-US » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:48 pm

Eral you don't need to lower yourself. I have done nothing so wrong as to have this kind of raw Hate, and malice comming from you. please stop!

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