VOTE: Permanent Teams or 2 TEAMS in 2 vs 2 Tournament

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VOTE: Permanent Teams or 2 TEAMS in 2 vs 2 Tournament

Postby Red Button » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:16 pm

ok guys. I think we all read "it wont work" , "never has before", "no team", .... So lets just bring it to an end by this VOTE:

I do only want to read: permanent Teams or Felxible Teams. No reasons, no "in the past"... Simple, what Teamstructure u would prefer. I will do, what the majority says. So simple it will be. For more dicussions, please use the other topic, we already have been discussing in it.

:)


---> Permanent teams (my vote)
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Postby Nightwatch » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:18 pm

no more than two teams in the 2v2 competition
everything more kills the tourney
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Postby Red Button » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:34 pm

Ok
I have another suggestion:

No Teams at all in 2 vs 2.. Whoever meets will play.
At the end, both winners get 1 point. At the end of the tournament, the score of a player will be divided with the number of games he played total. This average will be compared to the others and the 4 guys with the most average will battle out the tournament win.
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Postby Why? » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:50 pm

Even if permanent partners worked there would be 2 scenarios...

1) All the best players would partner with each other, leaving the noobs to partner with each other. There would be some epic matches between the best teams, but the noobs would get beat so bad, that they quit the ladder and they'd never learn anything. After a month there would be only a few teams left playing. Dead tournament.

2) The best players are forced to play with noobs. Teaching noobs how to play is frustrating, at best. (Mostly because they won't accept that they're noobs.) Half the great players quit once they realize how ignorant their noob partner is. For the teams that don't quit, in every match there will be one person that gets double teamed. The noob either won't know how to fight back, or won't know how to take advantage of their partner getting double-teamed. The matches are lost, because a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. More great players quit, because it's no longer a measure of their skill. It's a measure of how stupid their noob partner is. Dead tournament.
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Postby Red Button » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:55 pm

Well, why?

u give the answer yourself... in permanent teams.. Only the pros will stay till the end.. And the noobs, who want to learn.. I have no problem at all, to do for those kind of people some work.. But what about option number 3?
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Postby Nightwatch » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:58 pm

Excuse me Why?, but i really dont have time to teach some semiserious newbie the higher arts of strategy andDefcon Gameplay.
Furthermore, i dont intend to ruin my stats only because im forced to play with some newbie against our second tier players around here.
That doesnt mean i wont play with the ocational newbie, but it will be on my terms when i feel like it.
If you are a newbie and serious about getting proffessional, its already possible.
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Postby Schubdüse » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:02 pm

I will not obey! :twisted:

BeeTeams™ (flexible)! Each in HiveTeam™ A or HiveTeam™ B.
BeeTeams™ will collect "pollen" for their own hive. At the end of the "bloom period", the two best bees of each hive have to play the final BeeDance™.
Winners are allowed to mate with the virgin queen bee. :lol:
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Postby Zorotama » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:05 pm

Nightwatch wrote:Excuse me Why?, but i really dont have time to teach some semiserious newbie the higher arts of strategy andDefcon Gameplay.
Furthermore, i dont intend to ruin my stats only because im forced to play with some newbie against our second tier players around here.
That doesnt mean i wont play with the ocational newbie, but it will be on my terms when i feel like it.
If you are a newbie and serious about getting proffessional, its already possible.


Ohhh, finally a moment of truth!!

The problem is that: your stats. This is the proof that you play ever alone, also on a 2vs2..why you not consider the idea to not join a real 2vs2? If YOUR stats is the problem..

Otherwise you can try to use your skill and your talent also for other, and doing good with a TEAM job.

You don't contest the format of the tourney, you contest the meaning itself of a team tourney.

Stop to tell what it works and what it doesn't work and say simply what you want and why you want it.
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Postby Why? » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:09 pm

Nightwatch wrote:Excuse me Why?, but i really dont have time to teach some semiserious newbie the higher arts of strategy andDefcon Gameplay.
Furthermore, i dont intend to ruin my stats only because im forced to play with some newbie against our second tier players around here.
That doesnt mean i wont play with the ocational newbie, but it will be on my terms when i feel like it.
If you are a newbie and serious about getting proffessional, its already possible.


Hehe, I know! That's exactly how I feel, too. It's not fun trying to teach people. Especially people who aren't trying to learn. They're just "having fun" getting their asses handed to them.


RedButton wrote:Well, why?

u give the answer yourself... in permanent teams.. Only the pros will stay till the end.. And the noobs, who want to learn.. I have no problem at all, to do for those kind of people some work.. But what about option number 3?


If you could pick your partner, that would be fun. That's how everyone wants it. However, it just doesn't work. Only a handful of games will get played, because the scheduling is a nightmare and there aren't enough players.

I think the "no teams" option would work, and we've never done it like that before. That way you can partner with, or against, anyone. Having 2 teams would work, as well and there's a bit of team spirit involved. I also liek the idea of an "all-star mini tournament" at the end, for the players with the best records.
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Postby Why? » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:10 pm

Schubdüse wrote:I will not obey! :twisted:

BeeTeams™ (flexible)! Each in HiveTeam™ A or HiveTeam™ B.
BeeTeams™ will collect "pollen" for their own hive. At the end of the "bloom period", the two best bees of each hive have to play the final BeeDance™.
Winners are allowed to mate with the virgin queen bee. :lol:


LOL you're lunatic. I love it!
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Postby Red Button » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:11 pm

Although I would put it in a more diplomatic way, I agree with Zoro a little. I want to have fun. And as Zoro. my fun is complex. It can result in winning, but it will even more fun to play a good teamgame. If I not win vs Ace and MOR or whoever else is considered best, right now. Then it shouldnt be. As long as my partner and me had fun. I have no bad feelings, to waste my time, only because I was loosing.. Its just the diffrents point of views, why we play Defcon. I guess this is the bottom of the problem.. Not that it couldnt work..

But again.. What about my 3rd option from above.. It also would have the advantage, that we fun-motivated players can play, with whom we want.. And u "score"-related players, can team up.. and play..
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Postby Nightwatch » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:19 pm

Zorotama wrote:
Ohhh, finally a moment of truth!!

The problem is that: your stats. This is the proof that you play ever alone, also on a 2vs2..why you not consider the idea to not join a real 2vs2? If YOUR stats is the problem..

Otherwise you can try to use your skill and your talent also for other, and doing good with a TEAM job.

You don't contest the format of the tourney, you contest the meaning itself of a team tourney.

Stop to tell what it works and what it doesn't work and say simply what you want and why you want it.

Dont jump from A to C.
Your tourney mode wont work, regardless of my stats.
Now, my stats.
If you think ill invest time and energy (any idea how intense it gets when playing at the top?) into a game against some proffessional (although not expert) players while im forced to play with a newbie who is just along for the ride, you are mistaken.
Its a offical tourney for christ sake, not some defecon education program. I had to work very hard to get where iam now and i simply refuse to play with an issued partner only because i was a very good player in then past.
Oh yes, its supposed to be a TEAM tournament. I get that and i have no problem with it. But there is a huge difference between being forced to play with a certain someone against you guys or have some great battles with fair teams against the best players there are.
My time budget is limited, same goes for my energy. I have to pick my fights.
If you want to have a education program for newcomers, find something other than a offical tourney to do it.
And i would even consider to teach some interested guys a thing or two about how i play the game.

@RedButton
Your follow up mini All Star Tourney is a good idea.
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Postby Zorotama » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:23 pm

Hahaha, the point A was a team choosed by you. Choose your partner/s, choose the best..also for your stats and your top location. But don't tell me storyes about what it wouldnt work just to obtain another result.

I repeat, the point A was a team (small team) choosen by yourself.
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Postby Nightwatch » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:31 pm

Again: Iam aware of the fact that your Permteams make it easy to get good stats. However, due to the limited number of players, there wont be much of a tournament this way.
The solution: Everyone is free to play with everybody.
In reality that means that SemiPermaTeams will be created over time.
Myself and countersmurf did it in the last tourney. Maybe you heard of Nightsmurf before.
That will happen and its creat. But you cant force the issue by creating teams in advance. We have to be able to form teams at random, otherwise players will get bored of waiting and your tournament dies within days.
Oh and yes, i played with countless other players then smurf in the last tourney.
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Postby Why? » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:03 pm

I want a special team name... :cry:

Senaty?
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Whywatch?
F why
Mogwhy

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