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General discussion about Defcon

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odstjj75
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subs

Postby odstjj75 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:17 am

why do they haft to surface when they fire off their slbm's
its not realistic.
i know its just a game but everything else is very realistic, to a certain degree i suppose.

except how a silo can shoot like ten missiles, whats up with that? like mega silo.

from what ive learned a ICBM silo only holds one missiles, but we got like alot of silos. that only have 1 ICBM
and each ICBM carries multiple warheads.

bah, im just rambling on. any body want to join?
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Postby Vicious » Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:38 am

So what was the purpose of this post again?



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Re: subs

Postby T-95 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:01 am

odstjj75 wrote:why do they haft to surface when they fire off their slbm's
its not realistic.
i know its just a game but everything else is very realistic, to a certain degree i suppose.

except how a silo can shoot like ten missiles, whats up with that? like mega silo.

from what ive learned a ICBM silo only holds one missiles, but we got like alot of silos. that only have 1 ICBM
and each ICBM carries multiple warheads.

bah, im just rambling on. any body want to join?
xander?


Because subs have to surface when they fire thier missiles. The game isn't realistic at all, so what? Why do you play it then? If you wanna a realistic game, please find a realistic game.

As for ICBM silos holding one missile...Perhaps in the game it's just marked as a silo LAUNCH SITE. Meaning there are at least 10 silos in one area. Ever thought of that? No? How about a nuclear warhead stock and the silo gets reloaded every time? Ever thought of that?

And again you start talking about ICBMs with multiple warheads. For the last time, it's called a MIRV, do some research before making such useless posts. :roll:
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Postby xander » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:04 pm

The basic answer to each of the questions that you posted is "Defcon is a game, not a simulation." When creating a game, the designers need to be concerned with what will make the game fun, not what will make it realistic. To be realistic, silos and anti-missile installations would be different buildings, and the anti-missile installations would almost never hit. To be realistic, the ships would have to move a lot slower. To be realistic, Africa and South America would not have nukes. To be realistic, units would already be on the board when the game starts. However, none of these things would really create a fun or balanced game. So, clearly, game balance must have some role in determining how realistic to make the simulation.

To address your points specifically:
  1. Subs have to surface to fire their nukes because otherwise there would be no reason not to have them in launch mode all of the time, or at least to put them into launch mode really early on. If subs can sit in launch mode off the coast of Greenland until the cows come home, and not be visible to passing ships or planes, then one can simply sit there and wait for an opponent to open up their silos, then launch a bunch of nukes. Even if each sub only gets off one nuke, four enemy silos are destroyed, without any chance of retaliation. By forcing subs to surface to launch, opposing players are given a chance to react.
  2. Silos have 10 missiles, and fire them one at a time to prevent one from launching everything at once, and to prevent the placement phase (defcons 4 and 5) from going on forever. Suppose that a player were given 100 silos, each with one nuke. It would take quite a while to place them all (assuming they would all fit in Europe). Also, defcon 1 would be a quick launchfest where everyone launches all of their nukes to saturate the opposition as quickly as possible. That might be more realistic, but it probably wouldn't be all that much fun.
  3. MIRVs have a similar problem -- it would too easy to saturate an opponent's defenses, and the game would not be that much fun.


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Postby 47 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:51 pm

from what ive learned a ICBM silo only holds one missiles


i wonder where u learned that from??? an ICBM mean Inter Continental Ballistic Missile...its a missile not a silo for starters.... as for silos they can launch one at a time but they got multiple nukes of ICBMs in stock so when one is fired they get rearmed with the next one to fire. as for subs i think xander answered it that it allows the opponent a chance to kill them but in reality its diff...
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Postby Why? » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:33 am

Well said, xander.


Also, I'm pretty sure that subs have to be at periscope depth to fire missiles. So while they may not be visible on radar, they are easy to spot from above, and on sonar. Even when they're running silent, in coastal waters, they kick up sand and leave wakes behind them.

I had one run right underneath our boat, leaving the mouth of Chesapeake Bay. It was in about 60ft of water and it left a half-mile turquoise green trail and 1 ft wakes. Water swirling, like a hot tub. Granted, he was prolly going fast as hell, but if he was just sitting at 20ft or so, anyone above could see them. Even in boats. And that's in the murky watr of the Chesapeake Bay...

In tropical, salty regions they'd be easy to spot, from double the distance.
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Postby odstjj75 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:34 am

well put xander everybody else, was pretty lame " why " who cares.

i see why, sometimes i just wish that they made a game or mod for defcon, that was just like real life, lame and sucked. and pretty much means when nuclear war happens when every country just says hell with it and starts firing off everything they have, that literally there will be little to no chance to hold off a first strike. and everything will be gone. i know that the game is like this to a certain degree. but take away that degree. make it where its not fair make it where you can launch Slbms from undernearth the water. make it where you got like 45 silos with one missle [ good job with that missle silo thing saying it might be a compound with multiple silos in a area. accurate] but over all even if it was like that a silo contains 1 Icbm that is Mirv Enabled there are also silos with nothing there. a defense strategy that if were russia or who ever was to launch a first strike they might target the wrong ones. and Mirv, will make the game even more horrible, but in my opinion it will make it even more bone chilling watching a missle splinter into a dozen objects. comoing down towards a massive city, just bone chilling. ow and missile defense. in bound icbms can be shot down usa has the javelin a missle designed to destroy a inbound icbm, not with conventional explosive but with a massive kenetic object pretty much just beast the missile and russia has there defense to. either way the game will still be fare. the missiles are launched from greenland and when it says launch detected and shows where the missiles are launched like ICBM or SLBM have an option to target the nuke(s) and fire javelins at the inbound missile make it by chance like original defcon but what are those things lines that chase the missle and do circles around it. kinda funny sometimes when you do 4x speed. i could go on for days about this

47. i honestly get most of my infor from wikipedia if you know a better site of getting missile statistics or idk whatever please tell me. heres how i stay updates with war and all that jazz.
http://www.spacewar.com/ its a nice site check it.
xander i know why they dont do what its like in real life, but just for laughs, and to see how we are really screwed when the nukes start flying.
its all to jus make a funny
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Postby odstjj75 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:35 am

47 wrote:
from what ive learned a ICBM silo only holds one missiles


i wonder where u learned that from??? an ICBM mean Inter Continental Ballistic Missile...its a missile not a silo for starters.... as for silos they can launch one at a time but they got multiple nukes of ICBMs in stock so when one is fired they get rearmed with the next one to fire. as for subs i think xander answered it that it allows the opponent a chance to kill them but in reality its diff...


your an idiot
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Postby Forrest Krunk » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:03 am

I dub thee odstjj75 as xander's forum personal assistant! Please feel free to put people in their place at will! :lol:
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Postby T-95 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:00 am

odstjj75 wrote:
47 wrote:
from what ive learned a ICBM silo only holds one missiles


i wonder where u learned that from??? an ICBM mean Inter Continental Ballistic Missile...its a missile not a silo for starters.... as for silos they can launch one at a time but they got multiple nukes of ICBMs in stock so when one is fired they get rearmed with the next one to fire. as for subs i think xander answered it that it allows the opponent a chance to kill them but in reality its diff...


your an idiot


How is 47 an idiot?
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Postby Pwnbroker » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:51 pm

odstjj75 wrote:
47 wrote:
from what ive learned a ICBM silo only holds one missiles


i wonder where u learned that from??? an ICBM mean Inter Continental Ballistic Missile...its a missile not a silo for starters.... as for silos they can launch one at a time but they got multiple nukes of ICBMs in stock so when one is fired they get rearmed with the next one to fire. as for subs i think xander answered it that it allows the opponent a chance to kill them but in reality its diff...


your an idiot


You should think about returning to defcon 4.
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Postby rus|Mike » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:12 pm

odstjj75 wrote:
47 wrote:
from what ive learned a ICBM silo only holds one missiles


i wonder where u learned that from??? an ICBM mean Inter Continental Ballistic Missile...its a missile not a silo for starters.... as for silos they can launch one at a time but they got multiple nukes of ICBMs in stock so when one is fired they get rearmed with the next one to fire. as for subs i think xander answered it that it allows the opponent a chance to kill them but in reality its diff...


your an idiot

Explain or kill yourself.
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Postby Why? » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:16 pm

Pwnbroker wrote:
You should think about returning to defcon 4.


LOL


LISTEN odlsdnjlskj! I didn't read your essay, of jibber-jabber bullshit, but it's clear you are the biggest fucking idiot on the board.Congratulations!

My story was just meant to elaborate on the point, that everyone else was trying to make, but you can't seem to get through that thick skull of yours. An accurate simulation is impossible, in most every way. The reality is too complex, and there really isn't much in the way of defense. It would not be fair or fun, at all, so it wouldn't make for much of a game.

Simulators are for planes n shit, not nuclear war. jack-ass.
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Postby sfericz » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:22 pm

ICBM are so silos!! Wiki told me! You know the place where other idiots edit the pages! so STFU LOL ZOMG
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Postby odstjj75 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:30 pm

"why " am i the idiot here, you didnt even take the time to read over my jibber jabber. or essay. i belive you are the idiot here. you didnt even read over it. why didnt you read over it? your the idiot you dont even know what im talking about and you call me an idiot.
your just stupid.
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