DEFCON Wishlist

General discussion about Defcon

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rstd2
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DEFCON Wishlist

Postby rstd2 » Fri May 27, 2016 9:47 pm

So before anything this isn't a suggestion thread, it is a wishlist, because I know that IV will likely never work on DEFCON again outside some bug fixes on occasion, and it wouldn't be a very profitable investment. It might gain the game a few new players who'll, for the most part, get scared away by the pros who have been playing for - what, ten years now? Overall just satisfying a slowly stagnating community. However, if by some blind luck and disregard to financial advisory IV decide to update DEFCON, here is what I would want.

Multiple Unit Selection
  • Clicking and dragging selects multiple units/fleets. If one ship in a fleet of four is selected, all four are selected.
  • Holding CTRL whilst clicking and dragging only selects units of one type. For example, if the you hold CTRL click and drag and the first thing your field intersects is a battleship, it will only select battleships after that, regardless of what else is in the field.
  • Holding SHIFT whilst clicking and dragging functions as a hook and lasso tool. Otherwise functions like both above entries.
  • Holding CTRL and clicking on individual units selects multiple units/fleets at the same time.


A Better Tutorial
  • Please give the game a better tutorial featuring more valid tactics, and encouraging against six-fleeting and silo spreading, and placing in RADAR range. It would be a great help.

Multiple Audio Sliders
  • e.g., game sound effects, music, ...

General Refining of Sail/No Sail Boundaries and World Map
  • I understand this can be fixed in part with DEDCON and mods, but it would be nice to fix some of the land-sailing and aquatic silos. Plus dividing Germany might look nice.

Better Target Prioritization
  • Even though this is a fantasy list, I expect this may not be possible with the code the game is set up with, but feel free to prove me wrong:
  • Make it easier to set independent move and attack orders for units/fleets.
  • After an aircraft has completed their orders and RTBs, keep the standard order of priority for landing, but don't (by default, or unless the fuel range cannot facilitate it) make them not exceed the capacity of the carrier or air base they want to land on. For example, no more than two bombers will be given immediate orders to land on a carrier, instead of all 17 you sent out. In addition, unless under duress do not force more than five bombers to an air base.
  • FOR FUCKING FUCK'S SAKE DON'T MAKE CARRIERS FUCKING DECIDE TO MOVE ON THEIR OWN! I WANT TO LAUNCH FIGHTERS, NOT MOVE YOU IN THE GOD DAMN SUB TRAP!!! Ahem. Please ensure that carriers or battleships don't give themselves FLEETMOVE commands without the player issuing it. it is incredibly annoying.

Alright, well that's all I can think of for now, feel free to leave your suggestions in the comments.
Note: Land armies will never be added to the game. Not even in your dreams.

EDIT: Phrasing.
Last edited by rstd2 on Fri May 27, 2016 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Colytic
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Re: DEFCON Wishlist

Postby Colytic » Fri May 27, 2016 9:50 pm

rstd2 wrote:Clicking and dragging selects multiple units/fleets.


If I had to choose just one thing to improve it would be this!
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Re: DEFCON Wishlist

Postby Noryb » Fri May 27, 2016 11:19 pm

Colytic wrote:
rstd2 wrote:Clicking and dragging selects multiple units/fleets.


If I had to choose just one thing to improve it would be this!


Unless I'm misunderstanding something, wouldn't that result in a huge stack of ships if you select a bunch of singles and let them complete a move order? Seems pretty vulnerable if you're inattentive. Or would this just be for selecting launch/attack modes?
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Re: DEFCON Wishlist

Postby Mr.Megadeath » Sat May 28, 2016 3:28 am

rstd2 wrote:[*]FOR FUCKING FUCK'S SAKE DON'T MAKE CARRIERS FUCKING DECIDE TO MOVE ON THEIR OWN! I WANT TO LAUNCH FIGHTERS, NOT MOVE YOU IN THE GOD DAMN SUB TRAP!!! Ahem. Please ensure that carriers or battleships don't give themselves FLEETMOVE commands without the player issuing it. it is incredibly annoying.[/list]



This is probably one of the worst parts of naval combat I can think of.
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Re: DEFCON Wishlist

Postby atomic oracle » Sat May 28, 2016 4:54 am

I always thought a small number of mines, maybe 3 per player that could be placed near there own territoriy. each mine could only destroy 1 ship {not subs } and could be destroyed by blind navel nuking only. BOOM!!!
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Re: DEFCON Wishlist

Postby Colytic » Sat May 28, 2016 10:27 am

Noryb wrote:
Colytic wrote:
rstd2 wrote:Clicking and dragging selects multiple units/fleets.


If I had to choose just one thing to improve it would be this!


Unless I'm misunderstanding something, wouldn't that result in a huge stack of ships if you select a bunch of singles and let them complete a move order? Seems pretty vulnerable if you're inattentive. Or would this just be for selecting launch/attack modes?


I was thinking that if you selected a group of singles and directed them to a point, they would preserve their relative positions (formation) but centred on that point. Like how 'fleets' of multiple ships move. So you could quickly order your navy around in bulk.
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Re: DEFCON Wishlist

Postby rstd2 » Sat May 28, 2016 3:49 pm

Colytic wrote:I was thinking that if you selected a group of singles and directed them to a point, they would preserve their relative positions (formation) but centred on that point. Like how 'fleets' of multiple ships move. So you could quickly order your navy around in bulk.


I think perhaps IV could also add different formations for them to be placed in via other key presses, but that too.

Also, for what Atomic said, yes that would be a cool addition to the game, but considering no changes have occurred in the last ten or so years to the game, that would piss off the community.
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Re: DEFCON Wishlist

Postby Endless » Sat May 28, 2016 7:09 pm

rstd2 wrote:So before anything this isn't a suggestion thread, it is a wishlist, because I know that IV will likely never work on DEFCON again outside some bug fixes on occasion, and it wouldn't be a very profitable investment. It might gain the game a few new players who'll, for the most part, get scared away by the pros who have been playing for - what, ten years now? Overall just satisfying a slowly stagnating community. However, if by some blind luck and disregard to financial advisory IV decide to update DEFCON, here is what I would want.

Multiple Unit Selection
  • Clicking and dragging selects multiple units/fleets. If one ship in a fleet of four is selected, all four are selected.
  • Holding CTRL whilst clicking and dragging only selects units of one type. For example, if the you hold CTRL click and drag and the first thing your field intersects is a battleship, it will only select battleships after that, regardless of what else is in the field.
  • Holding SHIFT whilst clicking and dragging functions as a hook and lasso tool. Otherwise functions like both above entries.
  • Holding CTRL and clicking on individual units selects multiple units/fleets at the same time.


A Better Tutorial
  • Please give the game a better tutorial featuring more valid tactics, and encouraging against six-fleeting and silo spreading, and placing in RADAR range. It would be a great help.

Multiple Audio Sliders
  • e.g., game sound effects, music, ...

General Refining of Sail/No Sail Boundaries and World Map
  • I understand this can be fixed in part with DEDCON and mods, but it would be nice to fix some of the land-sailing and aquatic silos. Plus dividing Germany might look nice.

Better Target Prioritization
  • Even though this is a fantasy list, I expect this may not be possible with the code the game is set up with, but feel free to prove me wrong:
  • Make it easier to set independent move and attack orders for units/fleets.
  • After an aircraft has completed their orders and RTBs, keep the standard order of priority for landing, but don't (by default, or unless the fuel range cannot facilitate it) make them not exceed the capacity of the carrier or air base they want to land on. For example, no more than two bombers will be given immediate orders to land on a carrier, instead of all 17 you sent out. In addition, unless under duress do not force more than five bombers to an air base.
  • FOR FUCKING FUCK'S SAKE DON'T MAKE CARRIERS FUCKING DECIDE TO MOVE ON THEIR OWN! I WANT TO LAUNCH FIGHTERS, NOT MOVE YOU IN THE GOD DAMN SUB TRAP!!! Ahem. Please ensure that carriers or battleships don't give themselves FLEETMOVE commands without the player issuing it. it is incredibly annoying.

Alright, well that's all I can think of for now, feel free to leave your suggestions in the comments.
Note: Land armies will never be added to the game. Not even in your dreams.

EDIT: Phrasing.


With the exception of the Tutorial and the audio sliders, isn't this all laziness on the users part? Or the users skill level? I mean even average players know that to send fighters to kill one ship, you need to redirect them as to not expose your fleet. Also, all it takes is a little practice and you can find out the exact sail/no sail boundaries.

Really, this whole thing is just you complaining because you won't take the time or don't have the skills.
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Re: DEFCON Wishlist

Postby rstd2 » Sat May 28, 2016 8:35 pm

Endless wrote:With the exception of the Tutorial and the audio sliders, isn't this all laziness on the users part? Or the users skill level? I mean even average players know that to send fighters to kill one ship, you need to redirect them as to not expose your fleet. Also, all it takes is a little practice and you can find out the exact sail/no sail boundaries.

Really, this whole thing is just you complaining because you won't take the time or don't have the skills.


I agree, I am not the most skilled player, but that does not mean that some of these changes are unreasonable. Most of these are just requests easily found in other RTSes, I am capable of doing more complex fleet movements, but that does not mean that it can't be easier to do. Once again this is a wishlist, these requests are out of ease of access, in most games in the genre the above requests are relatively common because they make it easier to play.

TL;DR: I can play the game like it is, but these features would make it easier for new and old players alike to play the game.
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Re: DEFCON Wishlist

Postby Noryb » Sat May 28, 2016 10:56 pm

Gotta agree with Endless here. Most of these quirks with the game physics are pretty easy to get around. It's a large part of why the first hour or two of high level games are largely on real-time. Whether or not that is a good thing is subjective, but it's the game we know. As far as substantive changes, such as new units, are concerned, I think we can all agree that it will never happen and most of us can agree that it should never happen.

The main thing I would like to see modified is the textbox. There is a laundry list of things wrong with it, but adding timestamps to the comments would be a nice addition. Especially for casual spectators who keep a game running in the background.

Colytic wrote:I was thinking that if you selected a group of singles and directed them to a point, they would preserve their relative positions (formation) but centred on that point. Like how 'fleets' of multiple ships move. So you could quickly order your navy around in bulk.


That makes more sense, although I still see that running into problems with the land/sea borders. Being able to transform a formation of ships back and forth (e.g. a 4-pack going from diamond to vertical/horizontal line) would be extremely handy, especially for BBs. As would being able to add and remove ships from groups on the fly. I can't think of a way to do it without muddying up the interface though. The aesthetics of Defcon are a big factor of its success.

Anyway, this is all pretty much the definition of a moot point.
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Re: DEFCON Wishlist

Postby Legendary1 » Sun May 29, 2016 12:46 pm

o god wer do i start

First, in reply to the OP. The source code for Defcon has been available for a long time. Many of the things you wish for are not only possible, but available in MINICOM. Minicom is a mod for Defcon that fixes a ton of bugs and adds new features. Multiple unit selection is not in Minicom, but all the things in your Better Target Prioritization list are. Units have independent attack and movement orders (blue for movement, red for attack) and don't disobey anymore. Bombers even have an orange order marker to indicate that it is armed but no target has been set. Bombers spread themselves when returning to airbases/carriers, considering fuel and even prioritizing airbases/carriers that have nukes in them. Carriers do not move toward enemy ships when launching fighters/bombers at them anymore.

There are also additional game changing features. Subs can nuke anywhere in their range, and fighters automatically shoot. These extra features can be disabled ingame with the included mod "Core," which fixes the bugs of Defcon without adding additional game changing features. There is also a mod called "Hardcore" which is essentially original Defcon including all it's bugs. I think it's there so you can switch back to regular Defcon 1.6 without having to close Minicom and open regular Defcon.

We've only played a few games on Minicom and it hasn't been updated in 4 years. This is probably due to the fact that no one ever played Minicom and/or bert, the developer and past member of this community, got bored. However there is still a dedicated server up for Minicom which you can see on the server list. But no recs :( If you want to play Minicom with me, you can find me ingame or add me to Steam, username LegendaryDefcon.

As for my Defcon wishlist, this is just off the top of my head:

Faster games. I wish a strict speed budget and game time was hard coded from the start. Something like 5 minutes of non-renewable real time per player, 45 minute max game time. I want games to be as fast as possible while keeping a high skill ceiling. Some aspects of the game might have to be changed, but as long as the game is still skill based I would enjoy it. I like the idea of knowing a game can't last more than a specific amount of time when you want to play but time is limited.

Regular updates. Defcon was abandoned 1 year after it came out. There was a ton of room for polish. Stuff like being able to instantly reconnect to a game. Having a human substitute being able to replace the CPU in a game (someone who wasn't in spec obviously). Being able to see your team mates orders, or being able to see a players POV as spec, or see the whiteboard as a spec. And of course in addition to all of these extra things there would be all the bug fixes in Minicom plus more.
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Re: DEFCON Wishlist

Postby Noryb » Tue May 31, 2016 3:53 am

Legendary1 wrote:Faster games. I wish a strict speed budget and game time was hard coded from the start. Something like 5 minutes of non-renewable real time per player, 45 minute max game time. I want games to be as fast as possible while keeping a high skill ceiling. Some aspects of the game might have to be changed, but as long as the game is still skill based I would enjoy it. I like the idea of knowing a game can't last more than a specific amount of time when you want to play but time is limited.


I usually hate speed budgets, but I think that's reasonable. Would require some close teamwork as well as a new dimension with opposing teams trying to make each other burn up all the RT. I could see it being really frustrating if you wind up running out just as you need to launch silos or subs, but that's all part of he game. Might be an interesting mode to try out on one of the servers.

Legendary1 wrote:Regular updates. Defcon was abandoned 1 year after it came out. There was a ton of room for polish. Stuff like being able to instantly reconnect to a game. Having a human substitute being able to replace the CPU in a game (someone who wasn't in spec obviously). Being able to see your team mates orders, or being able to see a players POV as spec, or see the whiteboard as a spec. And of course in addition to all of these extra things there would be all the bug fixes in Minicom plus more.


The problem I see with making team mates' orders visible, or at least the reason why IV didn't do it, is that it would make backstabbing a lot more obvious. I don't know if they anticipated that the game would evolve the way it has, with set 2v2 or 3v3 teams. Reading the original press releases and interviews, it seems like they were expecting more of a free-for-all style of play, with short term alliances. I think making orders visible would take some fun out of diplo. Also it would seriously clutter up the screen.

I like the POV idea. Or at least be able to see the extent of the other players' radar view.

The stats box would be so much better if, in addition to showing kills, population, and available nukes, it also displayed current numbers of planes and ships. Doubt that would be too hard to implement. If we were going really crazy, it would be nice if airbases had a countdown for when a new fighter will be generated.
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Re: DEFCON Wishlist

Postby Legendary1 » Tue May 31, 2016 6:39 pm

Good point about seeing team mates orders and backstabbing. It would have to be an option set before the game then. To avoid cluttering the screen, it would be cool to have it as a toggle on the bottom right. It sure would make working together, destroying targets, and cleaning cities much easier. Oh, the things Defcon could have been if it kept getting updates! :( If I could code, I would create my own perfect version of Defcon! :D
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Re: DEFCON Wishlist

Postby Evilroots » Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:02 pm

+1 TOTALLY AGREE

long live defcon
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Re: DEFCON Wishlist

Postby Endless » Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:25 am

This should be stickied.

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