Commander Round Table - Gamesmanship Era of Malcontent

[Cobra Commander]

This is the second Commander Round Table

The Commander feel the levels of gamesmanship or to be more precisely it's utter current lack in key areas is having an overall detrimental effect on not only the perpetual health of Defcon but also stifling it's growth by being unwelcoming to new converts and discouraging those that wish to play in an honourable way. In honourable, by that I mean no ghosting, nuking of own populations, blatantly breaking competition or ladder rules in obvious ways or sometimes subtle ones and defection alliance issues plus lastly "bellergent spoilt child agenda" to encourage other users to disconnected. Anything of course could be added to this list depending on your own personal perspective and each of us will have our own specific opinions on what constitutes "honour" in Defcon and if it even exists. Of course gamesmanship is allowed however I wish to discuss this in a larger way.

When does gamesmanship cross the line for you in Defcon? Is anything allowed as you see it as a tenant of gaming the system and there are always flaws to be exploited or do you have a red line that when crossed there is no return? Is part of the appeal of Defcon finding new deceptive methods to win; with that do you actually take more pleasure in using skullduggery for a victory than winning in a fair fight? If you lean towards the dark arts do you feel this harms or enhances the community and if so why? What if any red lines would you create for competition and tournament play? That is it.

Thoughts and opinions please in an intelligent way.

[atomic oracle]

Group 6 has rules against many of the things you point out and we try to enforce them with our legion of admins but we cant even begin to catch them all. we have found also that punishi8ng noobs has its own drawbacks regarding keeping new players playing.Trolls on the other hand are pieces of garbage and cheating and disrupting games is there only recourse to make up for their lack of playing skills or their shortcomings physically.

[Cobra Commander]

Well that is good news on Group 6 servers I will look into this.

As for Fairy Tale monsters never encountered anyone like that on Defcon. I would like more debate on this issue then and am a little disappointed at the lack of responses so far.

[Zorotama]

I think the crossline is perfectly coincidental between honour and gamesmanship (if I intel properly the meaning of gamesmanship).

BOR, for example, could be a way to force the opponent to leave the game after hours of timeplay but it could be also a real necessity, if for example someone needs to recharge bombers in the carriers many times to do an effective naval fight and to use properly his subs in the final (subs maybe very far from their targets).
If the strategy or the chance needs a long time, I can't condemn it. But if the long time is the strategy, well I condemn it.

Obviously only a retrospective vision can determine if a guy played in an honourable way or not in this case (or a spectator of course).

Maybe OT but I'm recollecting about your answer in FY's ranking tread: You still forget, in my opinion, that 1vs1 is not an evil creation...it is the first, or one of the first ways in which defcon was played. It's not a perversion of the logic itself of defcon but it's its primary and fundamental perspective.
I don't believe that the "climate" trough the players is changed cause the new ways to play defcon (2vs2 and 3vs3) or for some ladders, tourneys etc. etc (when the last tourney really was played for real? A tourney works when there is a good climate..it's not the cause of a bad climate), I don't believe that an high level of competitivity is an evil thing for defcon...I think you confuse the causes with the consecuences.

Anyway in that post I said that I agree with you about the mentality and I share with you the "sadness" for how many things happened (ghosting, cheating, low tricks and low behaviours to obtain a result that in my vision is beyond the competitivity). It's because I want to win that I don't cheat. If I can win fast I will do fast, If I need to change my movements because the game is going differently from what I hoped and I have to move the subs along the oceans...I will do it trying to win. What's wrong in this? What don't you comprehend from my easy point of view?

[ReflectionCoup]

So you like to dance Cobra, so gay:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4tWBILtrSU

[Cobra Commander]

So predictable Reflection. Thanks for comments Zoro. The first good post on the issue.

As for the above one this is another example of how standards have slipped around here. Why did you not actually post something constructive Reflection? Was the opening point of view and argument too difficult for you to comprehend?



The battle lines are already being drawn in the larger tapestry of the Defcon landscape with those that actively destabilise and harm the community and those that wish it's reenergisation, health and contribute to it's wellbeing.

I think I know already which side you fall on Reflection.

[(MOR)]

BOR is a style of play and not a way to force the opponent to leave the game after hours of timeplay and I can swear it for more sincerity. It's simply about how can someone wait for something to happen for a while without losing hope and start doing mistakes. Then, the less you can stand BOR irritation and pressure the more impatient you will become and unable to tolerate it.

BOR is not waiting with the subs but its the act of working hard on the plan while the subs are waiting and following the plan and trying until the plan works. And the fuel of all that is confidence, because the more a person is confident about something the more patient he becomes.

Defcon for me is chess and patience implies power.

[Cobra Commander]

The question MOR is do you misuse this so called power? Not through BOR I accept it is a game style and many people cannot tolerate it however moving to acceptable and unacceptable acts of gamesmanship such as wilfully distorting game types when they are in action or just nuking your own cities to remove points, to getting others to break alliances to remove the game form records or running the timer on real timer in spite. These are just a few examples of actions that not only run close to the line but break it in my opinion. And you do have a long and torrid history of manipulating scenarios to your own advantage when in a losing position. Do you consider any of these examples to be illegal at all? Do the new Group 6 servers even eliminate your acts of past misdeeds that have bordered on shocking for a top ranked player or have you at last eliminated deception and trickery in your style in totality during games that do not even require or endorse it?

I am not singling you out merely wishing you to substantiate this type of play and why you feel it is not only beneficial for the community as a whole but also acceptable when playing games?

In chess you cannot walk away from a game or move a Knight diagonally, yet time and again it is as if you say you have moved a rook straight forward while secretly rotating the board and changing from black to white and actually have transcended the board with a Knight displacement. You do not seem to understand this either which is the real insult to opposing players of experience and skill with a shrug of your shoulders "anything goes because I say so" and I am afraid that just does not cut it in the real world.

Just my two cents.

I would hope you have stamped out some of your previous behaviour from your psychology but after the Christmas Challenge I am sceptical and waiting to see visual proof when push comes to shove in real games where you are faced with real opposition. The 2v2 you lost with the newbie yesterday against LSWP was reassuring as in the past you would not have had the decency to engage in that game or even complete it. So there is hope for you. Ladder scenarios brought out the worst in you.

BOR is fine if dull that is the real niggle with it. Extending games by over 50%. With this play style seemingly still the apex of Defcon strategy, allegedly, to win obviously a new variation is needed to counter it and that is faster initial strategy to remove the BOR threat or also to instigate the timer at an early stage with coordinated strategy by team duos in 2v2. That is on the hand of the other player though. BOR is countered by good teamwork in 2v2, in 1v1 it is a different story as there are fewer scenarios to initiate the timer.

Chess is chess MOR, you just need to stop rotating the board in many players eyes when real competition emerge.

I look forward to our match on Sunday.

[ReflectionCoup]

I think I know already which side you fall on Reflection.

The kind who gets sick of reading this novel size bullshit?

[Cobra Commander]

/ignore. Well that was easy and will be happening ingame also if you turn up.

[ReflectionCoup]

/ignore. Well that was easy and will be happening ingame also if you turn up.

Being ignored is always good. It's a sad thing we never see you in game though, you only fill post after post with your fantasy shit ... Please ignore that last remark.

[Cobra Commander]

I was playing most of Saturday in the end Reflection and observed a few in morning on Sundays. Can only play weekends and I was absent for three years until December.

Will not be picking up your own evening bed time reading recommendation though.

Prefer this...

[ReflectionCoup]

I was playing most of Saturday in the end Reflection and observed a few in morning on Sundays. Can only play weekends and I was absent for three years until December.

Will not be picking up your own evening bed time reading recommendation though.

Prefer this...

How did you know lol! I'm off reading now ...

[Dantesinferno]

my favourite is to pick a 1 v 21game and then "hide" my navy (subs and Carriers) in the south pole or anywhere really far away from their territory.
I pretend to be a noob and put 1-2 silos in radar range and send in my two battleship groups of 6
They go crazy bombing me to sh*t but when they have got my population down to under 1million then they wonder about my navy.
"wheres your subs" they type into chat
BUT!
I hold the clock and it wont go to victory timer unless they find my navy.
I then spend time making sure it stays far from reach.
They tend to get real mad when they realise this game will never ever end.
Me I giggle like a lil schoolgirl - winding them up in chat until they quit out of fustration.

Thats my kinda gamesmans ship - what do you think of them apples commander snakey?

[Cobra Commander]

Sounds like you have too much time on your hands maybe?