Unofficial Defcon World League Ranking 2016

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Mojo
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Re: Unofficial Defcon World League Ranking 2016

Postby Mojo » Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:31 am

Laika wrote:The subject of this discussion is FY's ranking, not your butthurt. I can't see how two are connected indeed.

Of course not, winning by all means is your specialty, and it seems the only way you can understand a game, so is near impossible for you to empathize with other points of view, for example that ones who put fair play on first place, not the rankings.
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Re: Unofficial Defcon World League Ranking 2016

Postby Cobra Commander » Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:33 am

You seem to fail to grasp the wider implications being discussed here Laikia and only joined in 2012 so have zero knowledge of life from the time frame of 2007-2012 a full five years before 1v1 and 2v2 have grounded Defcon into what it is now. Add something useful if you must, what you have typed will just be ignored by anyone with half a brain as you fail to understand a thread can move off topic and develop into broader depth and more important issues and matters. We don't care about these rankings they are subjective Mojo has mentioned the effect overall this philosophy and mentality has on the community as a whole. Mojo has a principled stance against aspects of ungamesmanship, yes it is specifically MOR however this aspect in Defcon runs far and wide in different ways. The dissolution of enjoying the game against "fucking over your competition at all costs" is now being talked about. If you cannot seem to grasp this then just refrain from posting.

In all honesty you talk like a teenager. Mojo is a skilled and long time player you should be taking his level of experience and playing time into consideration before mouthing off like a passive aggressive neo millenial.
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Re: Unofficial Defcon World League Ranking 2016

Postby Laika » Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:48 am

:shock:

FY has explained quite clearly his principle of ranking. Then you proceed to attack him for being consistent and placing MOR at the top. I maintain you're being silly.
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Re: Unofficial Defcon World League Ranking 2016

Postby Cobra Commander » Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:52 am

Mojo has played this game for nine years to your five actually. That is neither here nor there. Your inability to even engage in an intelligent debate is the issue here without resorting to profanity with a fully spectrumised viewpoint of opposition, instead you are locked into a pointless binary tit for tat. Maybe you just need to grow up and enter the real world.
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Re: Unofficial Defcon World League Ranking 2016

Postby Cobra Commander » Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:02 am

I will make another thread about aspects that have come to light here on gamemanship or it's lack there off to steer this back to ranking mumbo jumbo and those that love quibbling about subjective lists.
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Re: Unofficial Defcon World League Ranking 2016

Postby Zorotama » Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:09 pm

well, I agree with coby about the mentality but I think he suffers the same contraddictions.
coby, if you want play with honour and enjoy the game...why not?

I experimented by myself many times the wrong aptitude of MOR when he intels that he's losing a match. But this not forces me to play in an unpolite way (NEVER!!) and also it doesn't force me not to recognize that MOR is anyway the best player around (or at least when he was not rusty).

If you want we can discuss about what is "honour" in defcon but the way for an honourable competition is not to delete the competitivity in the name of fun. I have fun in competition. And 1vs1 exists since the birth of defcon (i mean before dedcon). And 2vs2 or 3vs3 are a genial idea for a team strategy match that needs all the concentration (and competitivity) to be played properly (i.e. with the higher fun).

edit: I did my first matches as demo and not forum member in 2007, I played some ffa but my higher fun was to play 1vs1 against cumiro, hosting the match by ourselves. The duel as idea is in defcon by itself.

edit: do you want to say that MOR is not ever polite during the matches? I concede it. But really I can't say that he ghosted. He did it?
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Re: Unofficial Defcon World League Ranking 2016

Postby Legendary1 » Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:27 pm

Laika wrote:If it takes three hours of micromanagement to win the game, the problem is not the players, but the game.


This. Strict speed budgets (non-renewable budgets I would think) and time limits on games would prevent endless BOR. Other benefits include:

-more games can be played, and you can know for sure if you have enough time to finish a game, since there is a time limit.
-faster games are more appealing to new players

The trick is to find balance between speed of games and skill. With faster games you might have to learn to micro faster and strategy/tactics might even change, but as long as the outcome of games is still based on skill instead of luck, I am happy with that. But this is just my opinion. Some players love long, slow games, and I totally respect that.
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Re: Unofficial Defcon World League Ranking 2016

Postby Cobra Commander » Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:55 pm

Zorotama wrote:well, I agree with coby about the mentality but I think he suffers the same contraddictions.
coby, if you want play with honour and enjoy the game...why not?

I experimented by myself many times the wrong aptitude of MOR when he intels that he's losing a match. But this not forces me to play in an unpolite way (NEVER!!) and also it doesn't force me not to recognize that MOR is anyway the best player around (or at least when he was not rusty).

If you want we can discuss about what is "honour" in defcon but the way for an honourable competition is not to delete the competitivity in the name of fun. I have fun in competition. And 1vs1 exists since the birth of defcon (i mean before dedcon). And 2vs2 or 3vs3 are a genial idea for a team strategy match that needs all the concentration (and competitivity) to be played properly (i.e. with the higher fun).

edit: I did my first matches as demo and not forum member in 2007, I played some ffa but my higher fun was to play 1vs1 against cumiro, hosting the match by ourselves. The duel as idea is in defcon by itself.

edit: do you want to say that MOR is not ever polite during the matches? I concede it. But really I can't say that he ghosted. He did it?


I am struggling to discern what your point is here.

You seem to confuse "honour" and ungamemanship with politeness/etiquette and manners and accuse me of having none in game and mix up "being nice" with "gamesmanship". I make a point speificaly never to swear or use profanity or insults at anyone in a directed way online during games that some younger members seems to think is a de facto standard these days.

Here is my point in this way about the definition of ungamesmanship and what it does to games in Defcon from both sides of the coin

MOR is MOR he will never change however his methods distill down into the ladder as MOR is an excellent overall player in winning matches due to his patience and experience, whatever method he uses. The manner of victory to some is unimportant that is the discussion we are having here and if it actually has prolonged negative consequences for the community in subtle and hidden ways plus the reformatting and organistaion form 2011 onwards from 6 player FFA Default/Random and Diplo to what the turgidity of 1v1 and 2v2 has created. I fail to see how having one of your top players continually use the methods he uses time and again to win does not have a detrimental effect on the community as he will be looked up to by new players and his methods emulated so much so that I would consider creating a new ladder and server with a specific set of rules to eliminate all of these issues and have them banned from the game type just to provide a server for people who are sick of these aspects of Defcon.

I fail to see where many of your inferences come from with regards to not only my decorum online, in game or beyond especially as I have been absent for over three years. I am outspoken and some people do not like that. I was brought up to speak my mind honestly, if there is anything I am guilty of it is that and trying my best to improve this community, the standard of players and their evolution overall for everyone as a result of my time, here and experience.

You could still be playing Defcon in 2020. You might not be able to though. So think about that for a moment.

I'm off to relax for the rest of the weekend feel free to contribute to the Round Table discussion though as I would be interested in your thoughts.
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Re: Unofficial Defcon World League Ranking 2016

Postby Forever Young » Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:17 pm

At least the forum is active now! :lol:
Also Dante is part of the community and very active.

Weird is, that there are or were other rankings and noone is talking about this.

I didn`t read all here but i will do it tomorrow.
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Re: Unofficial Defcon World League Ranking 2016

Postby Mojo » Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:44 pm

Stockpiling nukes and holding timers don't take a lot of micromanagement Legendary, in fact don't take any time at all. The capacity of some people to miss the point or just avoid to look at the real problem is astonishing... But don't worry, i will repeat how many times it would be necessary...

So... stop cranking about micromanagement and overall long duration of games, is a strategy game and is normal to take time, so is not that the subject of discussion here. The problem is not represented by LONG GAMES, but by making the games USELESS long by different tactics like stock pilling nukes and hold the timer. So a time budget will do no help, because you can hold the timer at speed 1X or 20X without making any difference.

The solution is much more simple than that, the timer trigger need to be increased to 25-30%. That's all folks! 8)

PS: With this i'm done on posting on this thread, as i hope that FY got my point about how rankings can exacerbate that already excessive competitiveness proved by some Defcon players... So good luck with your initiative :P
Last edited by Mojo on Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unofficial Defcon World League Ranking 2016

Postby (MOR) » Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:46 pm

Mojo, I do not understand why are you censuring the whole ranking table if your problem is only about placing mor at the top of the table.

Do you remember when you was playing real time 1vs1 games before? We suffered your style and your neglect to change it, but has anyone ever said, “No, I do not want to play you.” Because complaining about a style of playing isn't the good way. In fact, there are several ways to go about it.

I think the only people who think that long/hard games with much mathematics isn't fun are people who have given up. As an alternative, I suggest you to play Tom-Bush or skynet for fast fun.
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Re: Unofficial Defcon World League Ranking 2016

Postby Mojo » Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:58 pm

Sure, i got your point already MOR, the problem is in fact me and my micromanagement :lol:

For future references read better what i wrote before, and for further discussion on this specific topic i will open another thread anyway.
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Re: Unofficial Defcon World League Ranking 2016

Postby Legendary1 » Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:25 pm

Mojo, I was not commenting on the topic. I just saw an opportunity to state my opinion on slow games and speed budget. I didn't read any of these long posts because I really don't care about any of this.
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Re: Unofficial Defcon World League Ranking 2016

Postby Forever Young » Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:33 pm

Mojo wrote:Sure, i got your point already MOR, the problem is in fact me and my micromanagement :lol:

For future references read better what i wrote before, and for further discussion on this specific topic i will open another thread anyway.

Feel free to stay here! Doesn`t matter when it is going off-topic. :P
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Re: Unofficial Defcon World League Ranking 2016

Postby Legendary1 » Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:39 pm

Yeah stay. Mojo rescued this thread. It was too friendly!

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