Sad... very sad

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countersmurf
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Postby countersmurf » Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:25 pm

Trident wrote:To Xander : I'm glad I could be a part of you 3334th post. 3334 posts! thats alot of free time.

To All:

After seeing so much I guess I was just shocked to learn that you where all still here. Games are fun, thats why there games, but there comes a time to move on. Sure things like this are good for wasting time, but there is so much more you could be doing with that time, theres always newer experiences to be had. Is your stories to your children or your eulogy after your passing going to involve how much you liked computer games because there's really nothing else to say? That, is what would be sad.

In closing i guess the point of all this is to say.... For God sakes get out there and do something, ANYTHING to contribute to society and the progression of our species as a whole.


I can't think of anything sadder than you starting this thread.

You sound like someone whos eyes have just been opened to the world, good for you. I'm sure you've seen some new sights and done many interesting things over the past few months. Of course, I know nothing about all these great things you have been doing but what is sad in that you look down on others. Just get down off your high horse for a second. You are not the centre of the world.

You seemed to be focused on making a difference, I'm not going to write my life story but ansewer me this:
-Are my 3 years working for Engineers without borders worthless?
-What about 2 1/2 years working for the UN?
-Oh and were my years spent travlling through over 100 indivdual countries, a waste of time and money?
-My young children... pfft... they are useless wastes of spaces, aren't they?

I guess you've seen a hell of a lot more in your life than me. :roll: I guess you've made a larger "contribution to society" than me, whatever that is.......

Then again, I guess I'm just not young enough anymore to know it all....
Mas Tnega
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Postby Mas Tnega » Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:34 pm

countersmurf wrote:-Are my 3 years working for Engineers without borders worthless?
3 years of letting pople know the ideal birthday present is a
bigger hammer.

-What about 2 1/2 years working for the UN?
What good have they been in the last 2 1/2 decades?

-Oh and were my years spent travlling through over 100 indivdual countries, a waste of time and money?
Definitely.

-My young children... pfft... they are useless wastes of spaces, aren't they?
They're children. Why ask?

And if we learn the lesson "Do not argue with trolls - it means that they win", we've learned something useful today.
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Postby zjoere » Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:48 pm

Mas Tnega wrote:
-What about 2 1/2 years working for the UN?
What good have they been in the last 2 1/2 decades?



provide work to people like countersmurf and thus keeping them out of welfare ? :wink:
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countersmurf
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Postby countersmurf » Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:23 pm

Cut me down in a few minutes..... I think i'll take my bat and ball and go home. :cry:

Maybe I’ll move to Trident's world where I’m the greatest and everyone who thinks differently to me is sad.... very sad. :lol:
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Postby xander » Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:32 pm

zjoere wrote:EDIT: after checking wikipidia for "Solipsism" i think that was the thing the whole change the past thing out of 1984 was based on.
i'm so smart :wink:

Actually, the distortion of information in 1984 is probably more closely related to the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis than solipsism. Solipsism is the idea that nothing can be proved to exist beyond the self, in the instant. Thus, the existence of other people, history, sensations, &c. is all an illusion (or, in the weak form, might be an illusion). In 1984, there was an assumption that things do happen in the past and in the present, but that by altering the way that people perceive them, and by changing the language, you can change the facts of that past and present, and further influence the future.

xander
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Postby zjoere » Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:34 pm

xander wrote:
zjoere wrote:EDIT: after checking wikipidia for "Solipsism" i think that was the thing the whole change the past thing out of 1984 was based on.
i'm so smart :wink:

Actually, the distortion of information in 1984 is probably more closely related to the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis than solipsism. Solipsism is the idea that nothing can be proved to exist beyond the self, in the instant. Thus, the existence of other people, history, sensations, &c. is all an illusion (or, in the weak form, might be an illusion). In 1984, there was an assumption that things do happen in the past and in the present, but that by altering the way that people perceive them, and by changing the language, you can change the facts of that past and present, and further influence the future.

xander


that's a better explanation than the wiki.
i bet trident think that the way this topic is going also is sad...very sad.
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Postby zjoere » Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:07 pm

xander wrote:
zjoere wrote:EDIT: after checking wikipidia for "Solipsism" i think that was the thing the whole change the past thing out of 1984 was based on.
i'm so smart :wink:

Actually, the distortion of information in 1984 is probably more closely related to the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis than solipsism. Solipsism is the idea that nothing can be proved to exist beyond the self, in the instant. Thus, the existence of other people, history, sensations, &c. is all an illusion (or, in the weak form, might be an illusion). In 1984, there was an assumption that things do happen in the past and in the present, but that by altering the way that people perceive them, and by changing the language, you can change the facts of that past and present, and further influence the future.

xander


but didn't the o'brien guy say that there actually weren't any facts? if the people believed it was true it also was true.
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Postby KingAl » Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:13 pm

If there aren't any facts, then the fact that there aren't any facts is also not a fact. More seriously, what Orwell was highlighting is that what is *actually* true is immaterial if you can convince people otherwise - which is quite different from the proposition that there is no objective truth. That is, when O'Brien says there is no truth, what he's really saying is that the 'real truth' is irrelevant to 1984's government - they can, for all practical purposes, change the perception of truth to their liking.

Regardless, I presume that what Einstein was getting at was not solipsism, but rather the idea that our study of reality is inherently coloured by our perception of reality.

And can I also add, it's a pity Trident hasn't come back. True, that would be fairly hypocritical of him, but it would have been fun to cut him down again.

EDIT: Also, while there is the strong element of the manipulation of language in 1984 a la Sapir–Whorf, there is also the linked but distinct concept that one can convince someone of something patently untrue - hence Room 101, "two plus two makes five" and the newspeak word 'doublethink'.
Last edited by KingAl on Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Montyphy » Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:13 pm

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